Will Russia or Ukraine Win the War?

After this game sorts its self out, there will be another one coming along. It's in the DNA of humans. Some win, some lose. Just don't forget to --BUY MORE. BUY MORE NOW.

 

Russia is committed, in classic Russian style, meaning its pointless for the Ukrainians to even surrender, and Russia is not asking them to. Every country in the world knows Russia won't stop at just the Ukraine, and grabbing new territory is simply what they do, when their backs are against the wall. The Chinese are ahead of Russia, but have withdrawn their business support as their economy faulters, while the Ukrainians are blowing up their oil reserves, slowing down their booming economy at the same time.

If the Ukraine loses, WWIII breaks out, if they win, WWIII breaks out, and its a No-Win scenario either way. The US is sending them everything they can possibly use, and dozens of other countries as well. One of their air bases was just destroyed, so funneling them new weapons is becoming crucial.

 

^This

When Putin invaded Crimea, the thinking was "just let him have Crimea, then he'll be satisfied". Then he invaded the Donbas, and the thinking was "just let him have the Donbas, then he'll be satisfied". It should be clear that Putin is not someone who will stop unless someone or something stops him. It should also be clear from his massive list of war crimes (torture, mass murder of civilians, mass rape, use of chemical weapons, kidnapping 20,000 Ukrainian children, etc.) that the horrors inflicted on the Ukrainian people would only just begin if Putin were to gain control over them. Seriously, it's like this dude has checking off every war crime known to man on his bucket list. It should also be clear that no peace agreement with Putin would have any meaning, because he's violated every agreement he's felt like violating.

We would also expect Xi to be emboldened to attack Taiwan if Putin succeeds in Ukraine. We would also expect to see every country in the world try to get nuclear weapons, because it would become clear that international law is meaningless.

I'd really like to see peace in Ukraine, but I don't think letting Putin win is a path to it, any more than letting Hitler have Poland was.

 

Even if you killed Putin, Russia would remain Russia, and their entire economy is based on a war-time footing right now. The war with the Ukraine is the only thing stimulating their economy. They're a giant cut-throat corporation, that periodically eats all of its neighbors, because they can't get their shit together any better. Russia's just been invaded so many times, they learned how to survive without having to rely on anybody being in charge around here!

Now, China is ramping up the threats as well, as the US knocks their economy out from under them. There is almost no doubt whatsoever, the shit is about to hit the fan hard, and NATO is only now prepared for anything remotely like WWIII. People are moving more weapons half the damn way around the planet, then you can shake a stick at, in both direction and over the north pole, just as fast as they can.

Hitler was easy to hate, a clear target to shoot for, but Russia going insane is just par for the course for Russia, and our modern technology has made international politics unsustainable.

 

It all depends on who wins the U.S. election.

 

No one wins a war good people die.

 

During the 2024 presidential campaign, Donald Trump vowed he could stop Russia’s war on Ukraine with a single phone call. Instead, Matt Murphy and Ned Davies of the BBC report that Russian attacks on Ukraine have doubled since Trump took office. Today was the deadline the president had announced for Russian president Vladimir Putin to agree to a ceasefire in his illegal invasion of Ukraine or face further sanctions. Instead, Trump announced this afternoon that he intends to meet with Putin on August 15 in Alaska.
Putin generally cannot travel outside Russia because he has been indicted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes, including the theft of Ukrainian children. And yet Trump is welcoming him to the United States of America.
This welcome gives Putin the huge gift of letting him touch down on U.S. soil after he invaded Ukraine in defiance of the policy established after World War II to prevent another such devastating war. In 1945 the United Nations charter declared that “[a]ll Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.” The United States was the key guarantor of this principle until Trump took office.
The U.S. has stood against Russian invasions into Ukraine not only on this general principle, but because of security guarantees the U.S., along with the United Kingdom and Russia, gave to Ukraine in 1994. After the Soviet Union crumbled in 1991, Ukraine had the third-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. In exchange for Ukraine’s giving up those weapons, the United States, the United Kingdom, and Russia agreed to secure Ukraine’s borders. In the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, they agreed they would not use military force or economic coercion against Ukraine. Russia violated that agreement with its 2014 and 2022 invasions.
Now Trump will welcome Putin to the United States, to territory that once belonged to Russia, reinforcing for Russian nationalists the dream of recreating Russia’s old empire. That dream has been part of the ideology of Russia’s drive to seize Ukrainian land.
Donato Paolo Mancini, Alberto Nardelli, and Daryna Krasnolutska of Bloomberg reported this morning that U.S. and Russian officials are planning this summit to hammer out an agreement that will force Ukraine to cede to Russia its land currently occupied by Russian troops, as well as Crimea. This deal would hand Ukraine’s eastern industrial territory to Russia and bless the principle that one country can seize territory from another through force. Observers note that once this principle is established, as Putin wishes, there will be nothing stopping him from invading Ukraine again as soon as his war-weary country recovers its strength.
The plan revealed by the Bloomberg journalists is still vague, but it excludes Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky and European allies and is similar to the one Russia demanded in April 2025. That plan, in turn, rehashed almost entirely the plan Russian operatives presented to Trump’s 2016 campaign manager, Paul Manafort, in exchange for helping Trump win the White House.
Russia had invaded Ukraine in 2014 and was looking for a way to grab the land it wanted without continuing to fight. Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s 2019 report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election explained that Manafort and his partner, Russian operative Konstantin Kilimnik, in summer 2016 “discussed a plan to resolve the ongoing political problems in Ukraine by creating an autonomous republic in its more industrialized eastern region of Donbas, and having [Russian-backed Viktor] Yanukovych, the Ukrainian President ousted in 2014, elected to head that republic.”
The Mueller Report continued: “That plan, Manafort later acknowledged, constituted a ‘backdoor’ means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine.” The region that Putin wanted was the country’s industrial heartland. He was offering a “peace” plan that would carve off much of Ukraine and make it subservient to him. This was the dead opposite of U.S. policy for a free and united Ukraine, and there was no chance that former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, who was running for the presidency against Trump, would stand for it. But if Trump were elected, the equation changed.
According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, Kilimnik wrote: “‘[a]ll that is required to start the process is a very minor ‘wink’ (or slight push) from D[onald] T[rump] saying ‘he wants peace in Ukraine and Donbass back in Ukraine’ and a decision to be a ‘special representative’ and manage this process.’ Following that, Kilimnik suggested that Manafort ‘could start the process and within 10 days visit Russia ([Yanukovych] guarantees your reception at the very top level, cutting through all the bullsh*t and getting down to business), Ukraine, and key EU capitals.’ The email also suggested that once then–Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko understood this ‘message’ from the United States, the process ‘will go very fast and DT could have peace in Ukraine basically within a few months after inauguration.’”
According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018.
After Russia invaded Ukraine again in 2022, Jim Rutenberg published a terrific and thorough review of this history in the New York Times Magazine. Once his troops were in Ukraine, Putin claimed he had annexed Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, two of which were specifically named in the Mariupol Plan, and instituted martial law in them, claiming that the people there had voted to join Russia.
On June 14, 2024, as he was wrongfully imprisoning American journalist Evan Gershkovich, Putin made a “peace proposal” to Ukraine that sounded much like the Mariupol Plan. He offered a ceasefire if Ukraine would give up Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, including far more territory than Putin’s troops occupy, and abandon plans to join NATO.
On June 27, 2024, in a debate during which he insisted that he and he alone could get Gershkovich released, and then talked about Putin’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Trump seemed to indicate he knew about the Mariupol Plan: “Putin saw that, he said, you know what, I think we’re going to go in and maybe take my—this was his dream. I talked to him about it, his dream.”
That plan reappeared in April and, once again, is back on the table.
At the same time, officials from this, the second Trump administration, are working to rewrite the history of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election that led to Trump’s first administration. Although it is well established that Russian operatives worked to elect Trump in 2016, Trump has consistently tried to undermine that history by insisting that the many findings of Russian help for his campaign in 2016 were a hoax.
Lately, MAGA loyalists have worked to claim that the real story of the 2016 campaign was not Russian support for the Trump campaign, but rather a Democratic conspiracy to push the story of the Trump campaign’s connections to Russia. On Wednesday, Warren P. Strobel of the Washington Post reported that Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard last month overrode the advice of the Intelligence Community when she declassified and released a highly classified report on Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. The document made reference to sensitive sources and methods, but Trump supported Gabbard’s release of the report.
White House officials appear to be revisiting the story of Russian interference in the 2016 election to try to distract voters from the story of Trump’s relationship to convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Their pivot to this position has tied the two stories together in a way that had not previously been suggested. The surprising association has led Democratic political strategist Simon Rosenberg of Hopium Chronicles to speculate that Putin might possess “some form of the Epstein files” that Trump would prefer to keep from seeing the light of day.
Certainly, Putin is behaving like someone who is holding a strong hand of cards. Today Jennifer Jacobs, Margaret Brennan, and Olivia Gazis of CBS News reported that Putin “needle[d]” Trump this week by giving his special envoy Steve Witkoff the Order of Lenin, a Soviet-era award that commended outstanding service to the state, to pass on to the mother of 21-year-old American Michael Gloss, who was killed in 2024 fighting in Ukraine on behalf of Russia.
The journalists report that Gloss struggled with his mental health and did not appear to have been recruited by Russia. His family did not know he had enlisted in the Russian army or that he was in Ukraine.
Apparently, after he was killed, Russian officials learned that his mother, Juliane Gallina, serves at the CIA. By giving Witkoff an award named for the first head of the Soviet state to pass on to a CIA employee, Putin appeared to suggest that the Soviet Union had won the Cold War after all.
Heather Cox Richardson, 8 August 2025

 

Michael Gloss was Rainbow

 

For the Ukraine to surrender, the EU would have to surrender. Make no mistake about it, Russia is doing what they've done for eons now, and so long as China and India keep encouraging them, they have no choice but to remain on a war footing, for conquest. Global warming and all the other crap with AI are not helping the situation, and Russia is already in a position to wait for the oceans to rise and change reality as we know it. Between Russia and China, they will rule the oceans and, eventually, the skies and orbit, that is, if someone doesn't change reality as we know it.

Even if they reach a peace agreement, the minute the oceans rise Russia will go for broke. The US, Britian, and the EU let both Russia and China catch up to them, while they allowed their military to go into the toilet. The same scenario that led to WWII. The wealthy just want the money, and a billion dollar self-contained bomb shelter.

 

India wants a peaceful deal developed by diplomacy and negotiations between the us-nato-ukraine and Russia , as obviously conflict is not in the best interests of the region or the world.

We have friendly ties with all parties involved.

Nato expansion to the east may have enriched the military-industrial complex capitalists as shown by dramatic rise in defence shares as per news articles, but have proved a debacle for the average global citizen due to higher inflation, costs of living due to delinking of optimal supply chains.

This is more of a factor in the west and especially the US, where there is not much of a safety cushion for the middle and lower classes who are left to fend for themselves.

 

India can claim whatever they want but, the simple fact is, there is no peaceful solution. China has detained a high level banker, and the US has detained a long time Chinese diplomat, and Donald Duck is now meeting with Putin, attempting one of his "deals". We have never been closer to world war III, and India's government is known for assassinations, like Putin's.

 

The two world wars that originated in europe killing over a hundred million people were said to be due to failures in diplomacy as per historians. Interestingly military alliances also played a major role in these world wars, just as the military alliance of Nato in the context of the Ukraine war.

Obviously if people do not learn from history and see the bigger picture, there are bound to repeat the same foolishly .

Because of a high state of unconsciousness, they are doing the same things compulsively and not consciously, imho.

 

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Those who never laugh at all, learn nothing about their ignorance.