If I chew 3 leaves I get pretty philosophical (I do swall owafter - I do prefer fresh leaves) I think it would take 6-10 pairs of leaves (www.sagewisdom.org) to go fully psychedellic (not necessarily level 5-6 but probably 4-5) there is a great after glow from ingestion. of course each leaf would have been a 3-10 minute breakthough if smoked.