After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

I think we have much more to fear from armed nutjobs who have paranoid delusions about their government and are willing to use a show of armed force to intimidate citizens who have a different point of view from theirs. For example, the Oath Keepers, the Texas Freedom Force, and other so-called Patriot" groups who seem to believe only they have rights because they have guns.
UPDATE:Mob of Armed Gun Advocates Issues "Challenge" To Moms, If They Can Handle It
Armed 'Oath Keepers' arrive in Ferguson
Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis
Active Antigovernment Groups in the United States
Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis
Sometime soon Trump will either try to fire Mueller or Mueller will release his report, which could be explosive. If it challenges Trump and exposes illegality in his campaign operations, collusion with Russia, etc., which it could, all hell could break loose--in which case the presence of armed bands willing to take the law into their own hands to enforce what they think is the path of Truth, Justice and the American way is frightening. We need government to protect us from mob rule and vigilantes, and we certainly don't need civil war. Trumpists control the Presidency, Congress and the Courts. What more do you want to feel secure?

 

Why are we still arguing this?

There are plenty of people out there who think they should have the same firepower as a goddamn Marine. And that's more important to them than the lives of children.

If you really think you can rationalize with these people, you're kidding yourself. It's hopeless. Even survivors of mass shootings are condemned for speaking out.

Fuck it. World's a toilet.

 

6

LOL reasonable people right up to the point when they say something that you don’t like then they become ‘far left’ nutjobs

Oh thank you 6 – I love you, you’re the poster that just keeps giving

This is exactly the point I was making above about the gun owning right wingers threatening society if it doesn’t get its own way.

 

What we have here is basically a well-armed right wing group threatening society with violence if the progressive ‘far left’ (anything to the right of them) tried to change US society into something they would not like.

As I’ve pointed out before this is often a subliminal threat, hinted at in whisper but sometimes people like 6 and the NRA are a bit more overt.

Take this propaganda piece from the NRA



It’s a well-worn propaganda trope (seen in numerous coups) support the right wing law and order authoritarians OR you will be taken over by the heathens, the barbarians, the lefties, the socialist the communists and there will be tyranny and chaos and your women and children will be raped and you will be….forced to have prudent gun control, a decent welfare system and universal healthcare.

 

Noserider

I agree and disagree

I agree that many on the right and in the gun lobby seem to cling on to irrational and unreasonable ideas that even they cannot defend from valid criticism

I disagree that the world is a toilet – it can seem that way sometimes but then I see things like the Parkland kids (I’m old enough to call them kids) and even the optimism of my own child and it gives me hope.

Because if we don’t ‘they’ will – because they are persistent buggers, who paid or otherwise will keep knocking out their lies and deeply, deeply flawed and irrational ideas

Here is something from John Oliver about the NRA who makes the point in a lot more funny way than I could

 

Only certain spots:

Battling pollution in the Philippines’ largest lake

 

So the NRA the biggest lobby group for the gun industry comes out that the answer to a problem caused by easy access to guns is a solution that would boost sales of guns and the number of guns in circulation – the top brass in the arms manufacturers must be putting down their deposits on their second yacht.

Are NRA supporters so stupid they don’t notice it’s a con game?

It’s like the lobbyists for Big Pharma saying that doctors should give out even more opioid drugs as the answer to the opioid crisis.

*

And anyway it seems to me that the NRA stance has become increasingly paranoid and belligerent, anyone or anything that suggests even the mildest of gun control measures is attacked as a hater of American freedom. The Democrats, the survivors, the ‘main stream media’, the FBI, ‘the elite’ the Easter bunny and Santa Claus.

It’s a European-style socialist conspiracy they cry of people that want to “eradicate all individual freedoms’ according to Wayne LaPierre who also believes that "If they [the Democrats] seize power, our American freedoms could be lost and our country will be changed forever."

‘Please note his choice of words: "seize power." LaPierre invokes the language of violent political overthrow to describe democratic elections, and the peaceful transition of power from one party to another in America’ (Los Angeles Times)

This is either actual paranoia or the cynical manipulation of others paranoia to sell guns

 

More or less so than constantly referring to anyone who enjoys firearm ownership as a "gun nut", or anyone who feels there's plenty of firearms legislation on the books now that's just as ineffective in preventing similar tragic events as what is now being proposed as " anti gun control"?
Come up with a plan that will be effective in ending similar horrible situations, and I'll gladly fill out more paperwork, register with more agencies and continue to act like a responsible human being. Just blanket try and ban, make illegal or confiscate what's mine that I enjoy, and you're going to have a long, hard, uphill battle with a responsible human being on your hands.

 

LaPierre is just appealing to trump's base. Besides this is the same argument they had when Obama was president.

 

Some ideas presented already to try and lessen the harm from guns

From MeAgain

Educate people about what the new legislation is about and would entail (Not taking away all guns, the goal is to reduce harm by limiting easy access to the criminal and irresponsible)

Reinforcing, enhancing, and mandating back ground checks.

Immediate destruction of any weapon, ammunition, etc. used or acquired illegally.

Limiting the amount of legal ammunition that can be bought and retained.

Buyback programs - to get rid of or lower the number of midnight specials, assault weapons, etc.

All gun owners would need to pass a test of competence and responsibility to get a gun licence (part of which would be to pass a psychological evaluation)

A gun owner would need an up to date licence and insurance to carry on owning a gun.

Mandatory records of all sells or transfers of all firearms and immediate destruction of any that are discovered to be not recorded.

Let me add, the immediate confiscation of all private weapons that hold more than 6 rounds

From Balbus

Any gun kept at home or place of work (including businesses that involve guns) would have to be held in a secure manner (eg safe or other secure locking system). People that didn’t have an approved system would not be allowed to own a gun

If a person looses or has their gun stolen, and it is shown that they did not show due diligence in securing their weapon they would be subject to a heavy fine and/or banned from owning a gun.

Any guns would have to be presented for inspection 6 months after purchase then again one year after purchase and then every five years after that. Not presenting the gun would mean losing the owner’s gun license and being banning from owning a gun. If the gun has been lost or stolen and that has not been reported that would result in heavy fine and/or custodial sentence.

From NotMyRealName

Enhance the requirement to obtain a license to carry a gun. In some states, no training is required. You simply fill out a form, pay your fee and you get a license to carry a weapon. That needs to stop.

Raise the age limit of gun ownership. A person who has served on active duty military could be exempted, but the rest no.

If evidence of drug or alcohol use becomes a recorded problem, or a mental instability flag gets reported, it should not only be a red flag to purchase , it should be at the least a temporary loss of privilege to posses a weapon, until such time as that condition has resolved. Issue a restraining order on the spot and make them turn in or sell their weapons.

Make the gun buyers pay a school fortification fee or tax. Use that tax as a way to fortify schools using the very same people that are buying guns.

Don't allow the private sale of guns to anyone that you haven't run a background check on. Make a national database a required to be documented before a private sale can take place.

Take away the illegally owned guns. Place the illegal gun owners in prison.

Make a crime committed using a gun, hard time in prison. No 3 strikes your out, one strike and you won't get out for a minimum of X years.

Make the attorneys who gets these slime balls off be part of a process whereby they are forced to pay a tax of some sort if they choose to represent them. Penalize them for helping get them off. If an attorney doesn't wish to represent them, too bad.

 

And who are you referring to here? Santa or the Easter bunny?

 

Did you not read this thread

No one has suggested a blanket ban or forceful confiscation

 

Very constructive.

 

Well, you're the one focussing on a minority in your post. One that seems pretty much absent here. And act like they equal the paranoia and manipulation Balbus was referring to. Which causes real problems.

 

I have, and banning capacity or type is a blanket ban. The second amendment wasn't written in because deer might turn against us. That's not being paranoid or frightened, it's being prepared. And responsible.

 

It's equally unfair to place the burden of securing schools on the people who enjoy and own firearms. It's a public responsibility.

 

I'll admit I lost count of how many times gun nut and anti gun control were used in this thread and by whom, but it was enough to get me to respond.

 

Owning guns come with a responsibility. If you're able and don't want a bazooka or something nobody is at odds with the people who enjoy guns. Please read better.

 

If a Kill Planned Parenthood billboard popped up, would you be saying the same thing? Or would we all be speculating that the far right is inspiring abortion clinic bombings?


I think a lot of people on here would lose their shit

 

I promise to try and keep better track of who specifically said what in a thread with almost 400 responses. Will you try and suck it up and live with the fact it doesn't matter to me what I own that you're at odds with, as long as I'm following the law and being responsible?