After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

What kind of a gun do you have?

 

Yeah, me too. One by inheritance, and one purchased. I've never fired the inherited gun. I haven't fired the handgun in over four years.

 

Wow! There's some professional negligence for ya; that, or total incompetence.

 

So by your standards, the ban was successful because it didn't raise the number of shootings where "assault weapons" are used? I thought we were trying to lower mass shootings, not keep the status quo.

Absolutely not.

My point us the average soldier milling about his business isn't allowed to carry at his free will.

Why?

Ballistics hardly matter when you're up close.

Yet why one should be banned and the other ok?

 

Alright heres the deal.

Ladders kill more people than mass shootings.

Handguns kill 8x as many as rifles.

Knives kill 4x as many as rifles.

All of the smear campaign directed at the AR15 is bogus.

Lets focus on the overprescription of psych meds and why so many Americans are on psych meds.

Nobody from the NRA a supposed terrorist organization has ever shot a school up.

We have laws on the books like true military machinery is already illegal or difficult to acquire. Be happy with that. Gun grabbers go buy an AR15 learn how to shoot and then lets talk.

Proud NRA member.

 

I like the idea of the ban on assault weapons and I feel like it's the most important part. It's like it's the spirit of the legislation. Without that, there's no end in sight for me anyway. I don't want anything else. All of the background checks in the world aren't going to satisfy what I want to see happen.

Incidentally, it would also be cool if the Dickey Amendment was repealed so that the CDC could research gun violence again. That's ridiculous.

 

Someone has complained that this thread is just going in circles and should be closed and also implied that gun issues should never be talked about again –

Here a few thoughts on that -

Well yes I know many on the right don’t like certain thing been brought up because they are so embarrassed that they don’t have any rational answers and so end up squirming and evading and making themselves look like fools.

But as an out and proud leftie I think it my duty to spotlight the rights total lack of valid or coherent arguments whenever I can.

As to been circular well in this case that’s the fault of the gun lobbyist here who don’t have any good arguments and have to end up having evade and repeat stuff.

You see honest and rational debate is supposed to be linear – someone presents an argument, the presentation or statement is criticised, then the next step is the person addressing the criticisms or if unable to do so adapting or dropping that argument or taking back the statement.

The problem and reason why so many arguments involving the gun lobbyists her go circular is because many of them are not honest or rational debater’s because while being unable to address the criticisms they refuse to adapt or drop their arguments.

I can see certain people don’t like that but don’t blame the honest debater we are just doing our best blame the gun lobbyists for continually posting irrational and unreasonable crap meaning honest folk have to explain over and over in a reasonable and rational way why it is crap.

As to the same topic coming up, thing is that politics is often driven by events, if people truly want to stop the gun issue coming up as often as it does, stop Americans using them to kill each other.

I mean if there is a problem in your society you don’t solve it by not talking about it or pointing out just how stupid the gun lobby position is.

 

My thread got shut down. After I had said it isn't about gun control. It was about crime and why it stemmed from a predominant gruop of people.

Yet here we are at 80 pages on gun control.

Speaking of agendas.

 

Not

We can have that argument here – correct me if I’m wrong but your argument seemed to be that that most crime is committed by black, because they are black people, that black people are inherently more violent, criminal and immoral than other groups and that the reason for the high gun homicide rates in the US is not linked to ease of access to gun but that there are too many black people.

Or was that...

 

Nope none of that was ever stated. Your words. Noone else's.

Nice try though.

 

That kinda makes me want to see the homicide rates for the african continent, there is a lot of black peeople there after all

But on a serious not such a statement is just incredible stupid

 

Lol Come on, dude. Half of your thread was about that! (you're talking about the Chicago one right)

 

Asmodean

Yep the Chicago one and yes that seemed to be what he was getting at but in couched terms, so he could cry 'not my words' if anyone pulled him up on it - but let him speak - come on Not what were you trying to say 'in your words'?

 

What was proposed in the Chicago data was that it was about poverty, lack of education, poor family structure, and possibly a lack of law enforcement. Those were all proposed reasons.. And I do believe it was suggested (not by me) that it was about White Privilege that factored into it. I was certainly willing to compare the Chicago data examples to other city examples. We started to look at Boston. But the thread got shut down.

At no time did I ever state anything close to those words. You can try to make his words into mine all you like. We have grown very used to that tactic. So to be direct to your response. Consider yourself corrected. Not that it will change your dialog all that much.

 

And traditionally black household have the lowest median incomes according to the US census.

And it was mentioned that the areas with high crime had large black communities.

As to poor family structure - you called it ‘broken family’s’ and I covered that already

Again already covered in detail and at length and I’m sure it will be no surprise to people to find out its another piece of right wing propaganda – again look at the wording it is not single parent or lone parent it’s a ‘broken’ home a ‘broken’ family a reflection on a ‘broken’ society that is the cause of violent crime but….

Single parent rates according to the OECD in 2014

UK – 26%

Denmark – 23%

US – 23%

And according to the 2016 US census - Two-thirds of American single parent households are white, 1/3 are African-American and 1/4 are Hispanic. One-third have a college degree and 1/6 have not completed high school.

If there is a definite link between homicide rates and ‘broken’ homes then UK homicide rates should be larger than the US and the American rates should be on a par with Denmark’s.

Homicide per 100,000 -

UK - 0.92

Denmark – 0.99

US - 4.8

Ok so the UK and Denmark have better welfare systems than the US and do have universal healthcare, but one of the biggest difference is the ease of access to guns in the US compared to the UK and Denmark.

The thing is that most of the gun lobbyists are right wingers that also opposed to bringing in the type of welfare and healthcare system of say the UK (let alone Denmark) so are the gun lobbyists here actually interested in welfare reform or is this just another misdirection

LOL – let’s face it is a misdirection that they have tried many times before.

 

I love social science. And there are those who still say it's refutable/debatable?

These figures demonstrate a difference in the homicide rates. I'm curious to know the explanations for these that somehow and conveniently don't involve ease of access to weapons.

It'd sure be nice if the CDC could weigh in! #reapealDickeyAmendment