After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Okay, clearly you'd rather not make public the poster/s you believe is/are on a payroll. That's fine.

 

The AR-15 is being called an assault rifle by virtue of its pistol grip. So if you are calling it an assault rifle, that means you believe the pistol grip makes it so. Yet you appear to be distancing yourself from the pistol grip argument. So what's up with that?

 

So, in a mass shooting scenario, you're saying that less people would be killed if the AR-15 didn't have a pistol grip?

 

So your point here is that you view all guns as being just as culpable as AR-15s?

 

You mean all of the handguns that were used in the list of shootings I posted?

 

Without any math involved, every action creates an equal opposite reaction. A shoulers stock directly behind the barrel will absorb the reaction with the least deflection, and minimize rotational forces on the firearm. A pistol grip under the barrel will increase rotational force on it if the grip is used in any way against the reaction.

 

Because I'm not well versed in the particulars and am not willing to commit to specifics as a result. At that point I would just be spewing bullshit which I'd rather avoid because it would be dishonest and unhelpful to the discussion.

Semi automatic rifles. I don't personally understand the emphasis some gun control advocates have placed on the AR 15 specifically in this thread. From what I can gather an AR 15 isn't even technically an assault rifle (I did refer to it as one earlier because that seemed to be the way it was being referenced), regardless of it having a pistol grip.

In terms of a comprehensive list of which semi automatic rifles need to be further regulated I couldn't say at this point. I'm hoping more are discussed in this thread and others so I can begin to get a more detailed view on the differences and similarities of various types.

Correct, naming individuals would be a personal attack which I'd rather avoid. However there are some who I find it difficult to take on good faith. I'd prefer to leave it at that.

 

I really wish this question would be resolved.

Definition of what’s actually an 'assault weapon' is a highly contentious issue

 

Many gun owners who don't commit crimes? Why have you grossly underestimated the number of gun owners who don't commit crimes. There's about 100,000 gun related crimes in the U.S. per year (and about 25,000 of those are suicides). There are about 50,000,000 households with guns. That means that 0.02% of gun owners commit crimes with guns.

As far as throwing the gun haters a bone by going along with a ban on Ar-15s, I don't owe anything to gun haters.

 

How soon you forget. Written or verbal threats to do harm is a felony. The FBI admitted to their failure to follow proper protocol in that case.

 

Really? Even if they are non-specific? Show us the statutes! If a person said "I'd like to kill some Muslims", would that be a felony? We've had people on this site saying they'd like to do physical harm to a specific individual, David Hogg. Are they felons?

 

In light of the alleged rash of school shootings, when someone goes online and threatens to shoot school kids (become a school shooter), that constitutes a written threat to commit murder. That's why the FBI admitted that that information should have been assessed as a potential threat to life, and that they failed to act.

More on that:

The FBI said that on September 24 it was notified about a comment on YouTube from someone with the username “nikolas cruz.” The comment said: “I’m going to be a professional school shooter.” The notification came from a video blogger on You Tube who found it disturbing enough that it didn't feel sufficient to simply flag it as inappropriate. So he emailed an image to the FBI. When that bounced back, he called the local FBI field office.

An Instagram account that belonged to Cruz showed photographs of firearms, including one showing a gun's laser sight pointed at a street. Another photo showed at least half-a-dozen weapons laid out on a bed with the caption "arsenal". A third photo showed a dead frog's bloody body.

The FBI failed to act on a tip about Nikolas Cruz, the confessed shooter in the Parkland, Florida, school massacre, the bureau said in a statement on Friday. A person close to Cruz contacted the FBI on January 5 to report concerns about him, the FBI said in a statement Friday. But the bureau did not appropriately follow established protocols in following up on the tip. The FBI said the caller provided information about "Cruz's gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting." The information should have been assessed as a "potential threat to life," the bureau said. The FBI failed to act on a tip about Nikolas Cruz, the confessed shooter in the Parkland, Florida, school massacre, the bureau said in a statement on Friday.
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It sounds like you're saying that anyone can go online, or anywhere public, and say that they're going be a school shooter and then show the weapons they have to do the shooting, but so long as they don't mention the school they intend to shoot up, the cops have to just wait until the shooter acts. Is that what you're saying?

Concerning your question about threatening to kill Muslims, that might fall under terrorist threat laws:

A terroristic threat is a crime generally involving a threat to commit violence communicated with the intent to terrorize another, to cause evacuation of a building, or to cause serious public inconvenience, in reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience. It may mean an offense against property or involving danger to another person that may include but is not limited to recklessly endangering another person, harassment, stalking, ethnic intimidation, and criminal mischief.

Terroristic Threat Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

 

The gun grabbers like to remind us that we already have gun control so that more gun control seems reasonable .

 

All pistols have a pistol grip.

Pistols kill way way way more people than ar15s anyway.

Lets ban em*

*sarcasm

 

Well let's just ban their grips first, and then see how that goes. Ya know, we could really cut down on knife murders, too if we banned their handles. And if someone decides to use a knife anyway, all the cops would have to do is look for a guy with a big bandage on his hand.

 

Not exactly. That would provide ample grounds for reasonable suspicion to investigate. But insufficient grounds to do more, unless they have evidence that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed. It's a matter of specificity and imminence. A good example would be the arrest of An Tso Sun, the exchange student who posted a threat to "shoot up" his highschool, said he was stockpiling weapons in his bedroom, and told a friend not to come to school on a certain day. That was a credible threat. It also provided the "probable cause" needed for a search warrant or an arrest warrant. I doubt that the general statement about wanting to kill Muslims would, by itself, be sufficient to constitute a violation of Terroristic Threat Law. Even with inchoate crimes like attempt and conspiracy, there has to be something more by way of actus rea than just mentioning the act: "substantial act", etc. Under the federal terrorism statute [18 U,S.C., sec 232b (c) (1) (g)], the threat must made with (1) specific intent that it be taken as a threat; (2) so unequivocally, unconditionally, and specifically as to convey a gravity of purpose and immediate prospect of execution; (3) the threat must actually cause fear in the victim; and the (3) the fear must be reasonable.Brent Smith, (9 January 2008). Terrorism. 7 (2): 213–231.

 

Brilliant.

 

Besides the You Tube that the FBI was made aware of in which Cruz stated that he was going to be a professional school shooter (under the user name Nikolas Cruz), there was also a person that knew Cruz who told the FBI about his gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and instagrams in which he showed off his arsenal. That means that they knew both the identity and location of Nikolas Cruz. Had they investigated, as they readily admitted they should have done, they would have discovered that he was erratic in his behavior, bullied in school and ostracized, and in possession of a number of guns. So the FBI failed to act, and they acknowledged that.

Other people who've threatened to shoot up a school have been arrested. Tso Sun was arrested and charged with terrorist threat, and he didn't even have any guns.

 

Well, not really. The answers are there if we just allow ourselves to think outside the box instead of cutting our way outside it. Box cutters are never the answer.

 

Allah akbar