After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I don't know what guns on your list were used for what as you provided no source. But it isn't important, a minor point.
    I'm not attempting to demonize anything, just presenting facts.
    My only criticism of your list was that we couldn't draw a lot of conclusions from it. Some, but not a lot.
    I stated my reasons for the AR 15 not being used in the majority of mass shootings.
    There isn't any argument that the AR 15 isn't more destructive than most pistols. If it wasn't people would buy pistols instead of an AR 15.
     
  2. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    Yeah! We should all just go with how we feel rather than relying on facts and logic!
     
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  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Evil influence? Where'd that come from?
    Function is as function does.
    Why would you think that I would think that eliminating barrel shrouds and pistol grips would eliminate every mass shooting ever? Come on, present valid arguments.

    Your example doesn't prove anything. A product failed because of its name so they changed the name and it still failed?

    I'm not interested in the other posters in this response, just you.
     
  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Why do you keep bringing up self defense?
    We've covered that extensively, you can have a gun for self defense.
     
  5. storch

    storch banned

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    The guns on my list were listed because they were the guns listed as the guns that were used. Pretty simple.

    From the list I posted, we can draw the conclusion that the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice of mass shooters, and certainly not school shooters.

    I'm sorry, I must have missed your explanation for why the AR-15 is not being used in the majority of mass shootings.

    No one has argued that the AR-15 isn't more destructive than most pistols. But your comment about people buying AR-15s more than pistols does not stand up to scrutiny. There are probably more than 300,000,000 guns in the U.S., and probably about 10,000,000 AR-15s. So I guess I should ask you to explain why people buy pistols instead of AR-15s.
     
  6. machinist

    machinist Banned Lifetime Supporter

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    Oh thank you
     
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  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I said the reason more AR 15's aren't used in mass shootings is because there aren't as many of them as the other weapons you listed, most mass shootings aren't planned and the chosen weapon is whatever is closest to hand. Additionally most mass shootings are due to domestic or work related problems, not planned shootings.

    I don't think I said more people are buying AR 15s than pistols.
    Do you mean buying more pistols than AR 15s?

    I don't have any data on recent gun purchases, but pistols have been around a lot longer than AR 15's.
    The wheel lock pistol dates back to the 1500's, the AR 15 dates to 1956. In my opinion there are a lot more pistols in the world than AR 15s.
     
  8. storch

    storch banned

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    Come on, you've expressed your concern about pistol grips making rifles more deadly. That's why I've asked you a few times how the absence of a pistol grip would affect the accuracy of a rifle in a mass shooting scenario. And you forgot to answer me. Remember? You've offered copy & pasted information of the problem with pistol grips and barrel shrouds. Remember?

    Also, I explained the parallel between the hysterical demonization of the AR-15 and the AYDS diet product. But maybe this will help you:

    By the mid-1980s, public awareness of the disease AIDS - which had initially been called "GRID", for Gay-Related Immune Deficiency - caused problems for the brand due to the phonetic similarity of names. Initially sales were not affected, but by 1988 the chairman of Dep Corporation announced that the company was seeking a new name because sales had dropped as much as 50 percent due to publicity about the disease.[3] The product's name was changed to Diet Ayds (Aydslim in Britain), but eventually it was withdrawn from the market.

    Ayds - The Full Wiki
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  9. storch

    storch banned

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    Good. So you have no problem with me having an AR-15 with a 10-round magazine?
     
  10. storch

    storch banned

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    But you were one of the ones who offered up a list of school shootings that really wasn't any such thing. I would have been remiss to not point out that you and another didn't bother to find out what you were actually posting.
     
  11. machinist

    machinist Banned Lifetime Supporter

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    If you can have 10 whats 30
     
  12. storch

    storch banned

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    Yeah, you said that if AR-15s weren't more destructive that pistols, people would buy more pistols instead of AR-15s. Remember?

    "There isn't any argument that the AR 15 isn't more destructive than most pistols. If it wasn't people would buy pistols instead of an AR 15."
     
  13. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member Lifetime Supporter

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  14. storch

    storch banned

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    And here we have some more inconsistent reasoning as to why the AR-15 must be banned.

    From the link:

    "Weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like" aren’t protected by the Second Amendment and "may be banned,"

    The AR-15, a semi-automatic weapon and technically not an assault weapon, is similar to the M-16, an assault rifle first used on the battlefield in Vietnam.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    So, what they're saying is that the AR-15 might not be an assault weapon, but it looks like one, and so we're going to pretend that it is and ban it accordingly.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    And then they follow up with this gem:

    "Americans are not afraid of bumptious, raucous and robust debate about these matters. We call it democracy,"
    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    I'm surprised that during the debate, no one provided statistics concerning the use of the AR-15 in school shootings, mass shootings, and any crime in general. Or if anyone pointed out that though the AR-15 looks like an M-16, it does not function as one. If anyone can find anything that about the military using semiautomatic AR-15s, I'd appreciate a reference to that.
     
  15. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Technically, that's correct. As I understand it, "semi-automatic" means
    you have to pull the trigger each time you want to fire a round, and not just hold the trigger down and have a steady stream of bullets come out like a fully automatic.Maybe the court thought this was a distinction without a difference. Maybe it was wrong, but the court made its determination, and to challenge it legally the losing party would have to take it to the Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit and take its chances, which no doubt it will.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  16. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I'll bet Toggle Almendro hasn't been to Amsterdam. You guys have enough freedom to set the average American evangelical into cardiac arrest (real or pretended). Earlier, I cited the Heritage Foundation's Economic Freedom Index, which ranks Australia fifth, UK 8th, & the U.S. 18th. (Hate to tell you, but the Netherlands is only one step up from us.) But there are broader measures of personal freedom in which the U.S. fares worse. The libertarian CATO Institute's Human Freedom Index, 2017,which measures personal as well as economic freedom, puts Australia 7th, UK 9th, the Netherlands 174th & U.S.20th. Human Freedom Index
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  17. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    If you want the Kind of England to invade that is your business.
     
  18. storch

    storch banned

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    An automatic weapon fires four times as many rounds per second as a semiautomatic weapon. There is no way that any level headed, unbiased person would think that that is a distinction without a difference. It's certainly not. So when they say that "Weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like" aren’t protected by the Second Amendment and "may be banned," they're saying in no uncertain terms that the AR-15 is not an assault weapon, but it looks like one, and so we're going to pretend that it is and ban it accordingly. I wonder who's judging the judges.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  19. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Can you prove any of ut? Especially the "terrorist NRA" bit. I'd love to hear of all the shootings the NRA funded and how many shooters were NRA members.
     
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  20. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    The NRA didn't fund shooters directly. It simply blocked any efforts to restrict the weapons available to them and the background checks needed to keep them from buying weapons.
     
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