After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Efforts and actual solutions are two different things. I can make an effort to cure lung cancer by advocating removing your lungs.
     
  2. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    Well of course not many are going to be NRA members. That cult has a tiny membership ~1% of the population. That doesn’t absolve their responsibilities though. Literally every other manufacturer in the US is legally and civilly responsible for their products use. But those domestic terrorists bought immunity from congress through campaign contributions.

    As for tne first part you want proof on. Just google the memberships. The fringe NRA reports 5 million members. Scientology 15 million and AMC movie club 10 million.
     
  3. trashed

    trashed Members

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    Does that 1% take into account all the documented/undocumented illegal aliens we have allowed to pour into our country?
     
  4. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    The ones coming to murder all of our families so we need to stockpile penis enhancement weapons you mean?

    : “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore,” she wrote. “Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” ~The Statue of Liberty
     
  5. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    Thank you for this amazing insight.

    The terrorist nra blocked actual solutions. All theh care about is sales. For 8 years they vomited marketing diarrhea that Obama would take your guns. It didn’t happen but many nutjobs bought the sales pitch and fueled record sales for the DC lobbyists. Now they’re spewing that teenagers will take your guns. The same nutjobs fall for it
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I have pointed out the function of pistol grips on rifles. The function is to allow greater control and ease of use of the weapon.
    I didn't answer you about how the lack of a pistol grip would affect a mass shooting as there isn't any data on that one way or another.
    How would you gather that information as each mass shooting is a singular event that can't be replicated in a controlled experiment to determine what you're asking?

    We do know the purpose of a pistol grip on rifles though.
    My copy and paste is called research. I'm not going to go out and buy an AR 15 and conduct my own experiments in an attempt to validate or disprove the research I've done on the net.

    Now, I've also explained that I have no problem with a pistol grip on some weapons, such as a BB gun. In that case it's largely there for comfort or form. It looks neat. It doesn't really affect the performance of the gun in a big way and the gun is so low powered it can't do much damage in any case.

    I also don't have a problem with many types of pistol grips.
    Here's a type on a lever action rifle, I have no problem with it.
    [​IMG]
    The problem is when a certain type of pistol grip is combined with other factors in a weapon. Notice the difference between the two pistol grips on the weapons shown below. The first is an AR 15, the second a BB gun.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I really don't care about your Ayds argument. Ayds wan't a product designed to kill people and other forms of life.
     
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    A ten round magazine isn't too excessive depending on the weapon it's attached to.
    Here's a Rossi RS22 semi automatic .22 with a ten round magazine and a pistol grip. I don't think it appears on any assault weapons ban anywhere. An AR 15 is another matter, I see no reason to allow civilians to posses one with any size magazine.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I believe it was a list of mass shootings, which included school shootings.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I don't quite understand what you're saying I said.
    I said, or meant to say, that people buy AR 15's because they are more destructive then most pistols. If they weren't people wouldn't buy them, they'd op for more pistols. That doesn't mean there aren't more pistols in the world as people have been buying pistols for about 400 years and AR 15's for about 50 years.
     
  10. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    My one issue with your position is the focus on pistol grips and the AR 15. To my mind the issue is with any semi automatic rifle; focusing in on assault rifles and different accoutrements is like counting angels on the head of a needle.
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The quote "The AR-15, a semi-automatic weapon and technically not an assault weapon, is similar to the M-16, an assault rifle first used on the battlefield in Vietnam" was made by Doug Stanglin, the writer of the article, not the judge. It was not part of the ruling. So I don't know why you bring it up.

    I read all 47 pages. What it does say is that the AR 15 is basically the same weapon as an M16 lacking only selective fire and falls outside of the 2nd Amendment as it's a military weapon.
    The AR 15 was developed from the AR 10. The AR 15 was a select fire military weapon adopted by the Air Force in 1962, later adopted by the Army in 1964 and renamed the M16.
    The M16 and AR 15 are the same military rifle.

    The civilian version was made semiautomatic only, but retained all other military features.
     
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  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I'm not focusing on pistol grips, my opponents in this discussion are.

    I've have consistently stated that pistol grips are one factor only in the designation of what an assault weapon is, and I have pointed to examples of perfectly acceptable pistol grips on perfectly acceptable civilian weapons..
     
  13. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Has it ever occured to you that many people agree with the NRA's standpoint but aren't members? Like me for example. I agree with most their standpoints but II'm not a member. Has it also occured to you that just because someone is an NRA member doesn't mean they agree with them on every subject

    So Ford is responsible for all the drunk drivers that use their vehicles? If your product was sold legally, then you should be immune from the actions of that individual.
    See point above.
     
  14. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Such as?

    They weren't banned for lack of trying. Obama did and said many things trying to go that direction. Thankfully they were mostly stopped. Do you honestly think any politican wanting to ban guns but also want to be reelected would come out and say "I want to ban all guns"?
     
  15. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    Well that certainly explains why I was hounded about them without even mentioning them.
     
  16. storch

    storch banned

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    You don't understand that when you bring up the issue of pistol grips in a thread about gun control proposals, and then say that when combined with other features, they need to be banned, you need to prove that the combination makes an AR-15 more deadly. You haven't done that; no one has. At least you admit that there is no data to validate your opinion concerning the added danger that a pistol grip poses. In reality, we do know the purpose of pistol grips. You've simply attached false meaning to them that you cannot support with argument or data.

    I've explained to you twice now that the Ayds issue shows the fickle mentality of the masses. But I'll try one more time. People fear the AR-15 because it looks like an assault rifle even though it isn't. People feared the Ayds product because its name sounded exactly like a deadly disease even though it wasn't. It's like, tell people that black cats are evil, and they'll gather them up and throw them into a fire. Idiots.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  17. storch

    storch banned

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    Based on statistics, you're exhibiting symptoms of the Ayds mentality syndrome. Did you ever wonder why the police have never come out to condemn the AR-15 as a hazard to their profession? It's because it's used so rarely in crimes as to not be a concern.
     
  18. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    Nugent says Democrats should be shot like "coyotes"

     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Ford is responsible for deaths that result from poor vehicle design, construction, or defects such as was the case with the Pinto.
    Gun manufacturers are also responsible for defective guns but not from poor design.
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    I've notices this growing mindset over the past couple of years, this scapegoating of liberals and this mindset that anyone left of center is "the enemy" rather than just a normal person trying to live a normal life like everyone else in the world.

    I find it really alarming.

    And its a bit ironic that a huge 2nd amendment proponent is advocating the killing of journalists...but it does prove what i've suspected all along. 2nd amendment advocates will likely use the 2nd amendment in support of tyranny, not against. Bunch of anti first amendment bootlickers
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    Tyrsonswood and MeAgain like this.
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