After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    How is it poor design? Removing a magazine thinking it makes the gun safe is like turning the key will make the car drive. It's commonly taught that in order to make any gun safe, you must remove the magazine and then check the chamber. The fact the kid wasn't aware of that is the fault of the parent, not the gun manufacturer.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 8, 2018
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  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    You are changing my argument. I stated that pistol grips on AR 15s made them easier to control, hence more dangerous. You asked for data proving that if an AR 15 was used in a school shooting with or without a pistol grip the number of fatalities would be more or less. I stated that there is no way to determine that as there is no way to do a controlled experiment proving either claim.

    I'm not arguing what you're attempting to have me prove. I'm saying a pistol grip makes an AR 15 easier to control, thus making it easier to hit targets. When we look at any mass shooting there are many, many factors to consider, not just pistol grips.

    So you want to beat on the Ayd thing. So the mass is fickle, big news. So what? It doesn't change the fact that the AR 15 was designed as a military weapon and has no place in a civilian's hands. I don't care what it looks like, or how the public perceives it. All I'm concerned with is its functional aspects.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 8, 2018
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  5. storch

    storch banned

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    "Weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like" aren’t protected by the Second Amendment and "may be banned," Young quoted Scalia as writing on behalf of the five-member majority.

    Scalia was a judge. Young agrees with him. I quoted his statement from the article. Note that it's the only part of what I posted that is in quotation marks.

    Also from the article: "The AR-15, a semi-automatic weapon and technically not an assault weapon, is similar to the M-16, an assault rifle first used on the battlefield in Vietnam." So the author of the article, knowingly or unknowingly, explains why the ban is based on misinformation. And now you engage in the same kind of deception by saying that "the M-16 and the AR-15 are the same military rifle when you know that the AR-15 is not an automatic weapon.

    So my point stands: What they're saying is that the AR-15 might not be an assault weapon, but it looks like one, and so we're going to pretend that it is and ban it accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    storch, Apr 8, 2018
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  7. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    No that have never occurred to me. Thank you for that incredible wisdom. I suppose it’s also true that more people like AMC movies than are memebers and the same with Scientology. In the end their all fringe cults

    Hmmm. What if Ford sold the cars in a way that violated existing laws, maybe like at a car show. Should they be held liable then? Just a theoretical question of course
     
    Kerri, Apr 8, 2018
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  9. storch

    storch banned

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    But you knew that what I asked for was a list of school shooting involving an AR-15. And you knew that only three of those incidents involved an AR-15. We'll leave it at that.
     
    storch, Apr 8, 2018
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  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    In wake of Parkland massacre, police chiefs — again — call for assault-weapons ban

    March 2, 2011-“There is no reason that a peaceful society based on the rule of law needs its citizenry armed with 30-round [ammunition] magazines,” states Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck during a news conference.” Such magazines transform a gun “into a weapon of mass death rather than a home protection-type device,” Beck notes.
    February 26, 2011-Referring to increasing seizures of semiautomatic assault weapons that are trafficked in from outside states, Brockton (Massachusetts) Police Department Captain Emanuel Gomes says, “We’re literally outgunned. You’re talking about the kind of firepower that can go through vehicles, through vests, and that can literally go through a house.”
    January 16, 2011-After one of his officers is ambushed by a teenager wielding a semiautomatic AR-15 and fired at 26 times, Oklahoma City Police Chief Bill Citty tells The Oklahoman, “There are just more and more assault rifles out there, and it is becoming a bigger threat to law enforcement each day. They are outgunned.” Citty states that he sees “no practical reason” why a civilian would need an AR-15 or similiar military-style weapon.
    November 21, 2010-Buffalo Police Commissioner Daniel Derenda states,”In my opinion, [AK-47 rifles and other high-powered semiautomatic assault weapons] exist for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to kill.”
    November 15, 2010-After losing his son and another officer in a shootout to sovereign citizens armed with a semiautomatic AK-47, West Memphis [Arkansas] Police Chief Bob Paudert purchases 30 AR-15s for use by patrol officers in the field. “We’re going to protect our officers,” he says. “Our times have changed. And we’ve got to change with our times. We cannot allow our officers to continue to be killed.”
    July 16, 2010-Following the shooting of Philadelphia police officer Kevin Livewell by gunmen wielding two semiautomatic assault rifles (an AK-47 and SKS) with 30-round magazines, Philadelphia Policy Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross tells the media, “These are state-of-the-art weapons … My firearms experts over here tell me that…no body armor that we have would have saved our officers from these weapons here. I mean, in fact, many of them are capable of slicing through a vehicle. This is just how deadly these weapons are.”Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey describes the SKS rifle as “a very high-powered weapon capable of firing numerous rounds-very, very quickly and very, very deadly.”
    January 7, 2010-Disgruntled employee Timothy Hendron, 51, enters ABB Inc. in St. Louis, Missouri and opens fire on his co-workers. Armed with two handguns, a shotgun, and a semiautomatic AK-47 rifle with high-capacity ammunition magazines, Hendron fires approximately 115 rounds, killing three and wounding five before taking his own life. Patrol officers initially arriving at the scene are held back from entering the plant. St. Louis Police Chief Daniel Isom explains, “Our officers…didn’t have sufficient weapon systems to engage a person with an AK-47.” One of the first officers to arrive on the scene, Lt. Alana Hauck, later recalls, “I got home, and my 4-year-old daughter comes and gives me a hug … That’s when it hits you, this guy had a high-powered rifle. The worst could have happened, and I could’ve never got that hug.”
    September 13, 2009-“I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t scary” to face off against someone with an assault rifle, says Columbus [Ohio] Police Department Officer Chris Billman, 34, who was among those fired at during a 2004 incident [when Al Awwal Knowles, wanted in a double shooting, began firing an AK-47 from his Jeep while officers pursued him through Columbus’ North Side neighborhoods]. “Handguns are dangerous, but you have a different perspective when someone is firing rounds from an AK-47. Potentially, your vest won’t stop it and your car won’t stop it.”
    July 30, 2009-After a shootout between gangs, Boston Police Commissioner Edward F. Davis tells the Boston Globe, €œ[A semiautomatic AK-47 rifle] can lay down a lot of fire in an urban area where there is basically no cover from it. You can conceal yourself from these weapons, but they €™ll rip through a car. They €™ll rip through a telephone pole. They can rip through just about anything in an urban environment. Everybody understands when they read the morning paper that you have to push as much as you can to get these guns off the street.”

    How many more do you want? There are 29 more quotes listed on this site alone.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    MeAgain, Apr 8, 2018
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  13. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    Lol so you’re thought is those crazy liberals want to take the penis endhancement binky guns from god fearing men but they won’t come out and say it and instead have devised a sinister conspiracy to do it? That sound like Scientology
     
    Kerri, Apr 8, 2018
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  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    It could be a poor design or insufficient warning labels. I don't know, the point is the case was not allowed to go to court to prove or disprove the claim.

    Manufactures get sued all the time for insufficient warning labels. My god I see warning labels on coffee cups.
    [​IMG]​
     
    MeAgain, Apr 8, 2018
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  17. storch

    storch banned

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    Provide reference to show that people are buying more AR-15s than pistols.
     
    storch, Apr 8, 2018
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  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I quoted the ruling of the judges in the case cited, you quoted the opinion of a magazine writer.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 8, 2018
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  21. mcme

    mcme lurker

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    I personally find the argument that by making something with the serious ownership responsibility of a firearm more controllable, you're making it more dangerous rather than safer, silly.
     
    mcme, Apr 8, 2018
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  23. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Sure, you tried to restrict us to school shootings.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 8, 2018
    #2512
  25. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Read this very slowly.

    I never said more people are currently buying pistols than AR 15s, I said there are more pistols in civilian hands than AR 15s because pistols have been for sale for a much, much longer time period, and there are many, many different types of pistols. They have been available to the public for about 400 years.

    Read it again.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 8, 2018
    #2513
  27. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    First off, no gun manufacterer sells guns at gun shows without a background check, period. Secondly private sales are not violating existing laws.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 8, 2018
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  29. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    So ypur arguing for more warning labels by giving me an example of how ridiculous requiring warning labels has become?
     
    Maccabee, Apr 8, 2018
    #2515
  31. storch

    storch banned

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    You are correct. There is no data to support the idea that a pistol grip on a rifle will result in more deaths in a mass shooting scenario. Thank you.

    And what are the many, many factors to consider in mass shootings when it comes to the AR-15?

    Yes, the masses are fickle. You keep repeating that the AR-15 is a military weapon. Provide reference to support your claim that the military uses AR-15 semiautomatic rifles. You're concerned with the AR-15's functional aspects. What are those aspects you're concerned with?
     
    storch, Apr 8, 2018
    #2516
  33. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    You’re right! We need more guns! There’s no other way for weak men to feel safe than to hang on to their binky
     
    Kerri, Apr 8, 2018
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  35. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Why do you associate firearm ownership with sexual organs? I dont think about that when I carry a firearm and neither do most gun owners. As for your question, it's not a theory when California has banned certain firearms outright and how many politicians point to Australia's mandatory buyback program as a guide on how we can implement gun control here.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 8, 2018
    #2518
  37. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Thanks for admitting defeat. When you come back with an insult that didn't even have anything to do with the argument presented to you, it's a good sign that you lost the argument.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 8, 2018
    #2519
  39. Kerri

    Kerri Members

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    Oh I was confused. I thought you suggested politicians don’t come out and say they want to ban guns. For my understanding which is it?

    As for your first question I sincerely lots of binky gun ownership is rooted in a psychology of inadequacy
     
    Kerri, Apr 8, 2018
    #2520
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