After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Oh the same old crap – imply that if you don't love guns then you are only against them because you're scared of them, it’s so lame and so boringly predictable Ok here is something I wrote many years ago in reply to another boring and lame poster -

I grew up in the countryside around people that owed guns for keeping down vermin and hunting. I was also a member of a gun club and was a fair shot, but I grew out of it.

Thing is that it is possible to get a gun in the UK, many people have shot guns and if you are law abiding and seem responsible it is possible to get a license. It is just that most people don’t feel the necessity to have a gun. I mean what would I do with a gun in the city? Hunting, I’d rather preserve the wildlife we have, rather than shoot it. Keeping down vermin, I think calling a professional exterminator would be more efficient and less time consuming than sitting out on my porch in the hope a rat will show up (say nothing from the flak from my neighbours). As to home defence, well, as I’ve said there just doesn’t seem to be the US pro-gunner’s level of fear about that here.

 

Not "the cops". Just the ones responding to the NRA "partner".

No. That's your autobiography, isn't it? Home invasion, so now you must sleep with a semi-automatic under your pillow. I'm only concerned with developing rational gun control policy in this country, and would be willing to entertain any proposals. So far, I haven't seen any from you. Just a panicky "No way, no how!"

 

Why don't you try it sometime.

 

Then why advocate it in the first place?

Actually there where never enough machine incidents to say one way or the other. The Tommy gun stories of the 20's really only revolve around a few high profile cases and most of those cases were between either gang members or police. Besides, you're talking about not more than 100,000 automatic weapons back then. We currently have over 400 million privately owned firearms.

Actually it's not that difficult. Police can run the serial number and find out if it's reported stolen. Which really that's all the police needs to know. With the current system and the proposed registration, you can only know who was the last legal owner. Do you honestly think criminals will register the guns they stole?

There is still no evidence of the system reducing gun crime or violent crime in general.

And yet I've yet to see evidence that registration reduced gun crime in any of those countries.

 

It needs to be that way. Because of all the ongoing attempts to violate the Second Amendment, we need to prevent the government from having too much control over gun ownership.

 

I always defend my position with logic and facts. That's why you fail every time you try to challenge my position.

 

Storch, you don't seem to be able to understand the English language and/or to think straight. The judges aren't calling the AR15 a weapon of war. They're saying its enough like one to warrant regulation. As for your bogus survey, You obviously either don't understand survey research methodology or are trying to deceive us. The source is indeed biased. It lists the NRA as a partner and caters to gun owners. The methodology used was a travesty: non-random biased pool of respondents, self-selected, answering leading questions. And you distort my replies. "Oh, so now the cops are in cahoots with the NRA. Gotcha." "You just don't like the results of the survey because it doesn't support your views, so you're doing the only thing left for you to do about it; you attack the source." Fact is, as your own description of the survey shows, only 15, 000 or so officers out of 400,000 registered members of a pro-gun NRA partner organization completed the survey. Anyone knowing anything about survey research would know that the results of such a survey are bogus. No matter how large 15,000 may seem to you, it is less than 4% of the pool of registered members, which, in turn. is only a portion of some 800,000 officers in the country.By the Numbers: How Many Cops Are There In the USA? More importantly, it is not a scientific survey--i.e., the officers included weren't randomly selected. Those completing the survey may have (indeed did have) an interest in being on record in support of guns. A much smaller scientific poll of a randomly selected sample would have produced more trustworthy results. In sum, the survey is clearly propaganda. This isn't a matter of my opinion or dislike of the results. It's a matter of the blatant invalidity of the methods used, and the fact that reporting them with such a ballyhoo is an effort to pull the wool over our eyes.

 

There's around 800,000 police officers in the U.S. PoliceOne has 6500,000 registered members. Apparently you are of the opinion that a majority of law enforcement personnel are biased and cannot be trusted to tell the truth. Why don't you produce a survey of police officers that contradicts the survey I provided. That would help give you the appearance of reason.

If anyone would like to see what Meagain is up in arms about, here is what PoliceOne is: Our Mission

 

We know you're programmed to say that. What are those correlation measures again?

 

Tell us all how they are enough like a weapon of war to warrant banning. I mean in your own words rather than what you were told to believe.

 

No data demonstrates a causal relationship between firearm ownership and criminal violence.

 

The fact that you think these statements mean something shows you don't understand basic statistics and logic. In your post 3096, you quoted Police One's statement that it has 400,000 registered members, not 650,000. And only 15,000 completed the survey. And they were not randomly selected. Keep trying.

 

And of course you can back that up . . .

They have 650,000 members.

 

Not so. Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David," Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature". Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40; Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew, "Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries". Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997". American Journal of Public Health. 2002; 92:1988-1993; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003". Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64;
Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. "Firearms and violence death in the United States". In: Webster DW, Vernick JS, eds. Reducing Gun Violence in America. Baltimore MD: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2013.

 

No, I'm not implying anything. I'm telling you that you hate guns so much and are so afraid of them that you want all of them that hold more than six rounds confiscated.

 

Here, let's do some fact checking:

The National Research Council review of the available research on guns and crime found that studies comparing similar geographic areas, such as urban areas to urban areas, known as “case-control studies,” showed that “violence is positively associated with firearms ownership.” But when looking at larger areas, such as countries, the National Research Council report found “contradictory evidence.” Both types of studies, said the report, failed to address factors involved in buying a gun — it’s not a random decision. And gun ownership data itself is lacking — it comes only from public opinion surveys.

Eighteen experts participated in the NRC report, including those in criminology, sociology, psychology, economics, public health and statistics. The NRC’s conclusion: “In summary, the committee concludes that existing research studies and data include a wealth of descriptive information on homicide, suicide, and firearms, but, because of the limitations of existing data and methods, do not credibly demonstrate a causal relationship between the ownership of firearms and the causes or prevention of criminal violence or suicide.”

Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts - FactCheck.org

 

And of course you can back that up . . .

 

Tell us all how they are enough like a weapon of war to warrant banning them. I mean in your own words rather than what you were told by some judges to believe.