Is Nationalism A Good Thing?

I'm not sure people telling others to move country is a legitimate statement though like I don't think they expect you to just pack up and move lol. I think it's more of a notion, if you aren't happy why stay?

Easier said than done, but speaking of empty statements, when Trump was elected the Canadian nationalisation website came to a halt from mass enquiries of American wanting to move to Canada who was apparently opening their arms. Nobody went. It was all fluff.

I admire people who move countries etc. I've done that myself but not my choice to leave, but my choice to move back. I see people from all walks of life in my country, it opens your eyes to the possibilities and realities and opportunities the world has. It's really not that big this world and its really not that hard to get around either.

If you really wanted to leave and find somewhere better, you would and could, but that's not what people want. Whether they like it or not they're content to live where they are and complain about it too.

 

Oh you can call me what you like. Racist. Coward... I know you wouldn't actually believe it anyway which is concerning in its own right and merit. Why think or believe something you know isn't true?

Maybe I don't get what nationalism means in political terms, but I've don't political tests and my higher percentage always favors nationalistic.

I just want our countries national citizens, wherever they come from, to live well. Stand strong, stand proud, stand together, look after one another. This is our Deutschland.

No racism, no war, no terrorism, no nothing.

If my nationalistic persona is positive and peaceful, then all the doubters are opinionated and wrong. One persons behavior does make a difference.

 

Believe it or not, you can be critical of your country and be vocal about ways in which your country can improve and still be perfectly happy living where you live

 

And on the same hand one can hold nationalistic behaviour without the racial connotations participated in either.

But whatever. Is what it is, not gonna argue over it.

 

The best thing I can do as a person is just be me and I know I'm positive for the most part and generally accepting of most so I'm not going to concern myself about being awful for believe what I do. The best I can do is continue to be my own example, knowing full aware it won't change people's opinions, but I'll know what's right.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, while it's cool to believe what you believe, it's uncool to pigeon hole everybody else under those same values, because those values are yours and not anybody else. (not speaking of anyone in particular, just a general statement not intended or directed at anybody).

There's no right or wrong politics. See the results now are 4-6. That means 4 people feel differently to 6 people. No one is right and no one is wrong, it's about what makes sense to them and sense is individual, not common.

 

"Remember the Maine, to hell with Spain!" was the cry in 1898

 

Nationalism is just kind of a dirty word. I want national unity, too. But I don't want it to be self-indulgent like so much of American nationalism is. And I don't want it to be divisive. Basically, just more respect for one another on an individual basis. America is pretty embarrassing in that regard.

I don't think you really can have true nationalism, if that is the term, without mutual respect and consideration for others. All you can have is divisive patriotism where you're a better citizen than someone else.

 

Yeah.

 

Tommy Tommy Tommy Robinson..

#MUKGA

 

A lot of the problems in the world are connected and intertwined. Putting one country and its people first often won't solve anything in the long term.

We won't solve the problems until we gain a sense of "nationalism" for our planet. Like, this is US! The people of BEAUTIFUL EARTH and we're going to unite and make it a beautiful place together.

As for just being proud of where I'm from.. Yeah there's nothing wrong with feeling that way.. But it's just random chance. I can't understand pride in something I didn't consciously achieve.

 

Ah well, that's where I differ. I feel the consciousness of past ancestors as the blood runs through my veins. I've nothing but the utmost respect for my family who gave a lot for this country and this country gave a lot back and that means a lot to me. That's not me saying love it or leave it, or this isn't your land, move on out. That's just me and who I am, what matters in my life obviously doesn't matter to many others which is all well and good, but don't take that from me or the people it does mean something to. A lot of people in this world don't have anything and the one thing that might mean something to them, get called out with all the negatives. Uncool.

Anyway, my thoughts will be nullified as usual which just raises the larger concern to me with all this.. If the people out there, and there's a ton of them, are living a simple life why must others take that from them over individual ideals and values? The fact that there's a large percentage of nationalistic folks just goes to show that it's not wrong, negative or positive, the people find enough effort to stand up for what THEY believe in, makes me scoff at the folks that are so steadfast on telling others who and what they are based on their individual qualities and values or whatever you want to call it. It's just wrong to me.

I'm a Juggalo, I love everyone's nuances and special qualities, I've many of them myself. It's about as human as it can be, yourself and in true Juggalo spirit, I like to have everybody in the world just being themselves and living life how they see fit according to themselves without anybody casting down the judgement.

I don't like or dislike anybody for their political ideals for the reasons above, but I feel the negativity towards others for their ideals and I think that's piss poor so I deem all politics to be detrimental to my way of life.

 

That is fair enough. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with feeling that way (pride), it's just that I don't understand it.

I don't see how your ideas are being nullified : ) it's only a discussion. I like to hear the different ways of seeing these things, because it often shows that "nationalists" (or whatever else) are not one kind of person. People stating why they don't agree nationalism is good isn't "taking away" anything? from you or anyone else..

But the "putting your country/its people first" bit I do think is counterproductive, for the reason I said: the problems in the world are connected and intertwined.

 

Oh I believe all the problems are connected too but probably in a more far out interstellar galactic way.

I think another things completely overshadowed is the other causes? Bills? Laws? Change? That comes with parties. Nationalistic, you always hear the racial aspects, but that's only ever a portion of what the party stands for.

Like schools recieving more funding. Personally I don't know what party stands where on that but for argument sakes, you have children and you want them educated properly so you want schools to receive more money, you want the hospitals to be better in case accident with family etc. So you vote for that party. Whether or not all internationals that want to live in your country are screened for terrorism is the least of your concerns. You vote that party, you want better schools and medicine and yeah it makes sense to screen everyone to make sure they're not letting in criminals or terrorists. Makes sense.

*voting box office*

1. Nationals

People will decide on what's right for them and their families future needs, I don't think a solo person would vote for someone else so that their kids would get a better education if it means more taxes for them and worse conditions suited to their lifestyle.

See what I'm saying? Everybody is too different to bother warring about what side of the political spectrum folks are on. People have favorites for sure I just don't think it's worth a argument or friendship over if you asked me.

Everybody here knows someone on the oppside side of the fence and even if you don't, you do and don't know it. Y'all still friends. and if not, whatever side you stand on you know what? You're probably a part of the problem.

 

Sorry. Everybody is all good with me here lol. when I say "you" its like I'm talking to you as another person and not actually you. You'd get it if I was talking to you, not texting sorry. I can see why some of my posts come off like I'm telling people off, but I'm like talking in 3rd person or something I swear.

From now on I will try using Roleplay ** marks or something lol.

Mhmm see, maturity.
Ol' Irmi's gettin' wiser.
More of a wise arse.

<3

 

First I would like to say a big Thank You to all who have responded to this thread, no matter from what side of the opinion.
After all, this is quite an emotive issue.

What you say there is very correct Meliai.
Living here in the UK I can whinge and moan for England about all of the things I believe are wrong with this country.
And please don't get me going on Brexit!
But of course I can be Nationalistic while still 'fighting' for arguably good change in some ways.
I want to change our useless Conservative government for a start!

Those song lyrics say:

An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides
An' standin' up for things they believe in.

I agree with that!

 

I can relate to this. I hope everyone is willing to fight to make their country a better place

I think where nationalism becomes dangerous to me is when a country starts putting it's own self interests above other nations and causes pain and suffering in other nations because of it
Or when an ethnic majority in one country puts its needs above another class of people and causes pain and suffering because of it.

Basically, as long as you're not trampling the rights of others while fighting for your own rights I'm good with it

 

Nationalism can obviously be both good and very bad.
People saying in this thread they see no issue with it noneso-ever are obviously looking at it from their own perspective and ignoring reality.

No, nationalism is not always connected with racism (of course i would say). But it often is.
Yes, you can be proud of and loyal to your country just fine, without discriminating others. I don't understand why people find this an issue on itself. It's quite easily to spot when national pride gets dubious aspects.

Btw: being critical on immigration doesn't automatically equal discrimination against foreigners either (obviously i would say). Being anti immigration altogether usually does indicate (racist) discrimination.

I disagree. First of all: Irms said

I think that last part is key. It means a nation and its citizens are willing to help and invest in other nations, but not at a time your own nation has its own stuff to deal with and to such extent it takes away from solving your own stuff when that otherwise could be done.
Of course becoming more environmentally friendly is already an international concern. Being nationalist doesn't have to be an issue there (although i agree; it often is).

But what i disagree with is that we have to see the whole world as our fellow citizens in order to tackle the industry and pollution problem. Sure, it wouldn't hurt but 1) it's not needed and 2) wishful thinking. 3) it's also not a guarantee for anything. Lots of people see themselves already as world citizens more so than only or primarily a citizen of their own country, and are they all part of the solution? And are all nationalistic folks part of the problem? As always it depends on the details...!

 

Great post. You put it rather clear.

About this part i would say the bold part is key. Putting your own self interests first as a country is normal, and it used to be normal too to do it at the expense of other countries or people. But although putting your own self interests above other countries is normal and valid still, doing it at the serious expense of the society/citizens in another is not. Russia trying to destabilize western countries is a good example imo (no not just because im 'western' )

 

A very good post there Asmodean.
Particularly:

'Being critical on immigration doesn't automatically equal discrimination against foreigners either (obviously i would say). Being anti immigration altogether usually does indicate (racist) discrimination.'

PS.
One of these days a Cat is going to get that sticky out tongue of yours!