Antifa attacks Asian American Journalist Andy Ngo

Great, now I'm Emily Post.

 

Well now, it looks like Antifa took the Proud Boys off of the front page headlines by " Tuning up " Andy Ngo.
I only heard of Proud Boy involvement 3 days after the event.

Would it have been better to just let the Proud Boys act up; in the center of the spotlight. Americans could all sit back and exclaim: What a bunch of dicks.

In Northern Ireland, in Belfast and Londonderry it is marching season this time of year. Celebrations of Aprentice boys day, Williams victory at Drogeda, Oliver Cromwell and the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588 are all celebrated.

The folks of falls road and the bogside know well to cede the streets to the men in bowler hats. Let them be the center of attention for all the world to see just what dicks they are.

 

Right on point. It's why I don't care to see people stifle confederate flags. Let them display their flags so we all know who they are. And shutting down people's speech is probably the very worst way to prove your point as we see in so many colleges where assholes are encouraged to "disrupt" speakers who don't share their views.

We need to back off and let everyone have their say. Then we know for sure who the freaks, racists and bigots are.

 

Panic

I’m happy to let people have their say as long as they are happy to enter into to open and honest debate about what they say.

I think many believe ‘free speech’ mean they can say anything they want unchallenged, and become annoyed when their ideas are criticised.

But the thing is if bad ideas go unchallenged then some might come to believe that because they are been unchallenged then bad ideas are good ideas.

I believe free speech comes with the responsibility and even duty to defend what is been said from criticism.

Because if people become intransigent and refuse to answer questions or address criticisms of their ideas to the point of refusing to even talk with anyone whose view they don’t like then there is nowhere to go, no change is possible, no bad ideas can be overturned and the likelihood of violence happening become almost inevitable

Slavery in Britain (and its empire) was abolished after long debates and the changing of people’s views and peaceful protest. In the US, because of the intransigence of some, it ended only due to war (and because proper debate was then discouraged in many places racial abuses carried on and still does).

We have just had Pride and that long campaign for acceptance and equal right means that homosexuality is excepted in many places were once it wasn’t, but it has to be remembered that the movement started in the Stonewall riot due to the intransigent bigotry of the local police and that the gay community faced years of violence against them before the tipping point came (although homophobia still exists)

I’m not in favour of violence but once people refuse to debate there ideas in any open, honest and rational way, ignore criticisms they know they cannot address and attack those that ask them questions then their intransigence, just as with the racists slavers and bigoted homophobes it is likely to produce violent confrontations.

For that reason I think anyone that is opposed to violence and honestly believes in free speech would and should believe in open debate rather than like some refusing to even talk with people that disagree with them.

 

My milkshake brings all the soys to the yard

 

I have a love/hate relationship with antifa. Its Horrible that they label everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders as a white supremacist, and use violence to shut down any speaking arrangement or political rally organized by such people. But at the same time, it’s antifa’s domestic terrorism that draws moderates away from leftist causes.

Antifa started as a result of social Marxism, micro-aggression and safe space culture. Propagating the idea that opposing opinions are “hate speech” and such words are a threat to their safety, insinuates the idea that violence is a justifiable response.

When you use violence to shut down others, you lose the ability to call yourself an anti-fascist.

 

Tell that to Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, Oath Keepers, Vanguard America, American Nazi Party, Traditional Workers Party, Stormers, Patriot Front, KKK, League of the South, American Guard, Anti-Communist Action, and the rest of the armed and dangerous lunatic fringe who "use violence to shut down others", or try to. They started as a result of social Fascism, fueled by Nativist anxieties about the Great Replacement and fed by troll gamer manchildren on social media. Hate speech=speech expressing hatred of a particular group of people. Definition of HATE SPEECH Examples: See Twitter's New Rules Seek To Curb Hate Speech Targeting Religious Groups | HuffPost

 

Gotta love those SPLC classics. Freakin hilarious. Yes folks, there's a klansman on every corner today. Your mail carrier is probably a Nazi.

Too funny.

 

More tolerant lefts.. a mini me in a mobile wheel chair..

 

How dare we stop armed fascists from assaulting and murdering people.

 

Yes, folks. Charlottesville was an illusion. All crisis Actors.charlottesville unite the right - Yahoo Video Search Results
And the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer? Proud Boys Street Gang Had A Weekend Of Coast-To-Coast Violence | HuffPost
Gavin McInnes & Proud Boys: Poisonous Allure of Violence | National Review
FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as 'extremist group', documents say
patriot prayer violence - Yahoo Video Search Results
Continue paddling up that long river called Denial.

 

I’m sure we’re all in agreement that the extreme left-wing of the democratic party is just as evil as the extreme right-wing of the republican party.

 

6

So you are saying right wing violence does NOT draws moderate right wingers away from right wing causes?

I mean you might be right, I’ve noticed that right wingers seem a lot more vocal about supposed left wing violence while sometimes even glorifying right wing violence.

Remember that NRA ad that implied that even moderate Democrats were actually violent extremists in waiting and that right wingers should become armed so thet can fight the lefties 'with the clenched fist of truth'

What was it - oh here ‘The Violence of Lies’



*

Right wing violence is a result of racial nativism, opposition to supposed political correctness and anti-leftist ideologies. Propagating the idea that opposing opinions are “left wing propaganda’ and ‘socialism’ and that such views are a threat to the safety of US culture and so violence is a justifiable response.

When you use violence to shut down others, you lose the ability to call yourself a patriot.

*

[edit] I mean come on 6 you have even implied that ALL lefties are really Marxist socialists that want to destroy the US from within.

Oh you backtrack if ever pulled up on it….but then the idea is already out there festering in minds of those that don’t think things through or take the time to sift realities from falsehoods

Fill people with hate and fear and it’s not such a step to violence.

 

What happened to Andy Ngo is wrong on so many levels, and yet he’s a gay conservative journalist who supports Donald Trump and his lapdog Mike Pence, who’s only a heartbeat away from the use of draconian methods
to marginalize the homosexual community.

 

Hotwater

Yes but that is the thing - Panic has said that if we let people speak we’d know who were the racists and bigots, but is just knowing enough?

Don’t we have to confront and counter bigotry and racism wherever it is found not in a violent way but by pointing out that such views are deeply flawed and don’t stand up to rational argument, that they are 'bad' ideas and the people that have them should be pilloried.

The problem is that many on the right seem to say little or nothing to counter bigotry and racism and some even come across as apologists for those that say such things or for whatever reasons give their support to people that seem to have racists and bigoted views.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for people to say and do nothing

 

How true does this seems to you and others in this thread, btw:

I have the feeling the amount of moderate left leaning folks that are drawn away from leftist causes by Antifas bad rep is neglectable.
@Okiefreak what do you think?

The exception being: using violence to stop actual fascist violence. Verbal violence included. But I agree in most other cases: and i saw GuerrillaLorax advocating violence to shut down others (in the fascist black metal thread, i still need to respond to...!) Very unfortunate and disappointing

 

Asmo

But this is my question -

6 seemed to be suggesting that that the violence of some extremist lift wingers should put off moderate left wingers from supporting left wing ideas. And by extension that if moderates don’t then they must support the violence.

But if that is the argument then shouldn’t it’s also apply to the right?

I’d say this is bullshit - It seems to me that this whole fixation on the right with antifa is rather disingenuous.

If it was truly about the supposed violence then they would be as fixated on right wing violence but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

This seems a lot like faux righteous indignation

I mean Orison put up several emotional post on this incident but I can only find one mention of him about Charlottesville which was a post attacking a ‘leftist’ march there.

 

Yes, and when I brought up right wing violence, I was denounced as some kind of troll for daring to give backtalk on a thread intended to deal with only one side (and ironically accusing the left of suppressing free speech). You're trying to analyze this stuff as linear logic, but propagandists deal in psycho-logic (Abelson & Rosenberg (1958)--a kind of pseudo-logic grounded in irrational associations and often designed to rationalize hostile or nefarious impulses.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225051834_Psycho-logic_Some_thoughts_and_after-thoughts
Obviously, the fact that some extremists use violence on behalf of a worthy cause doesn't logically mean that everyone supporting that cause must either abandon it or bear responsibility for the actions of the extremists. That'ss logical nonsense. But it fits the psycho-logic of Six-eyed's favorite fallacy of attributing to a whole the attributes of one of its parts.

 

Yes, the usual highly reliable sources. Seriously man, all of this is a distraction. The greatest problems we have in the US are class issues. All of this other shit is designed to distract us from realizing how badly we're all being used by the 1.6% (which is also the percentage of US slave owners in the 19th century).

We're being played, so I have little faith in the efficacy of the stories we hear about American extremists on both sides. I also have little faith in folks who take a hard political position and nurse it like a tit as if there was no other truth in the land. Which is why centrists have a substantial advantage. Still, we got GW for many of the same reasons we got Trump. Even America's first black billionaire (Robert Johnson of BET) says the democrats are way too left and will likely fail in 2020.

But that's ok since they still have an ample supply of righteous indignation and can ride the denial train for another 4 years.

 

Seems to me Andy Ngo has chosen the wrong side and Antifa are showing him the errors of his way.


I just don’t agree with their tactics,