Do You Think Jesus Really Ever Existed?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Ringstar, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. Dax

    Dax Members

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    At a stretch ... a long stretch one might make out a case for a man named Jesus being a sort of travelling "prophet" of those times.

    However there is nothing, not a single scrap of evidence to prove there was or is an entity who "in the beginning created the heavens and the earth."
     
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  2. Tishomingo

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    I hate to say it but there's really not much basis for saying that. I think there's evidence that Jesus existed, but the only evidence about what He was like comes from writings about Him, none of which point to con artist. Pure speculation that tells us more about you than Him. One possible exception is the scene where Jesus' family shows up to do an intervention, and when told they're waiting outside, asks (Matthew 12: 48-49) : "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!' That does sound a bit cultish.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  3. Tishomingo

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    Why such a stretch? There seem to have been plenty of them.
     
  4. Tishomingo

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    I hate to say it but there's really not much basis for saying that. I think there's evidence that Jesus existed, but the only evidence about what He was like comes from writings about Him, none of which point to con artist. That he was is pure speculation that tells us more about you than Him. One possible exception is the scene where Jesus' family shows up to do an intervention, and when told they're waiting outside, asks (Matthew 12: 48-49) : "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!' That does sound a bit cultish. But why, if that's all he was, would he piss off Pilate? Could it be because he seemed to have attracted quite a following, and when he made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem on a donkey, in keeping with the prophecy about Israel's king (Zech 9:9), Pilate may have recognized a trouble maker when he saw one.
     
  5. Tishomingo

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    But only one is remembered. Why?
     
  6. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Someone had to emerge out of the pack
     
  7. Tishomingo

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    But I don't think it was random. In Conflict, Holiness and Politics in the Teachings of Jesus, theologian Marcus Borg argues persuasively that Jesus was particularly subversive in the context of first century Judaism because his gospel of compassion challenged the prevailing holiness (purity) code that was considered central, especially by Pharisees, to Jewish religious and cultural identity and its protection from pagan dominance. Not only did he eat too much, drink to much, and hang out with lowlifes, as far as the Pharisees were concerned, but he seemed to be "in your face" about it, and encouraging others to do the same thing. Hanging out with publicans and sinners was a definite No No. And the Romans got nervous about all the talk about "King of the Jews." I think it's clear he'd have the same problem with the church ladies and bible thumpers of our own time who call themselves "Christians".
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  8. Dax

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    Can anyone with an iota of intelligence believe that some guy can create a fucking universe and everything in it?
     
  9. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I find that what I believe is personal, intricate, and less useful for persuading other people than it is for guiding me in my own life.

    I think that Jesus is just beautiful... He died for my sins that I shall not perish in the fires of damnation, but that my soul may live on.

    But I think convincing others of that is a less effective strategy for effecting change in the world than, say, perhaps something more solidified.*

    Oh I believe in the power of God. But you have to remember, many people turn away from anyone who dares mention God or church or praise or anything that resembles organized religion.

    To get through to those people, you have to invent a method... & Jesus won't do it for you. You have to think for yourself, but be absolutely certain about one thing - He helps those who help themselves. You & Jesus, changing the world one life at a time. :sunglasses:

    :D
     
  10. Tishomingo

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    Some "guy"? Probably not. Does anyone believe that? Some scientists believe that a tiny particle popped into existence one day out of nothing and instantaneously expanded to became our fucking universe. Do you believe that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  11. wrat1

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    Catholics/Christians are just vampires and zombies they eat flesh and drink blood how crazy is that
    Did some guy named Jesus exist way back when? probably, virgin birth and the rest of the rigamarole no way
     
  12. Tishomingo

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    Not zombies. Zombies are dead. Roman pagans thought they were cannibals. But of course, that's an outsider's view. As a former Catholic, I can tell you the communion wafer and wine are supposed to be miraculously transformed by the priest into the body and blood of Jesus. Looks and tastes exactly like a wafer and wine, but it's really Jesus, supposedly. Not nearly as gross as eating flesh and drinking blood, and crazy? Can something be crazy if so many millions of otherwise intelligent people believe it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  13. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Sure. He's still around. He mows my lawn every thursday.
     
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  14. Tishomingo

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    Does He charge? Can He do mine in Oklahoma?
     
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  15. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member Lifetime Supporter

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    So you have a guy mowing your lawn who calls himself Jesus without an accent mark over the U?

    He Got Game ....lol...
     
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  16. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    There are references in Roman texts to a man named Christ who had followers. But those same texts also mention many men who claimed to be connected to god. There were lots of them back then and Christians did not invent the idea that they pick certain men to lead or they grant favors if you ask nice enough. So knowing who speaks to god is important political business.

    I think he did exist but was more like a Buddha figure. Not a god, just a wise leader who learned some truths in life. He had followers because they were shown they could be like Jesus. Since you are from the god source you are god to Follow a path of love and logic and you will make the world a better place. Ideas like not killing an enemy and loving rivals were ground breaking in Roman times. Power comes from war not love. But where is the control in that? No one would care what the church said in the Middle Ages. So the church had to reinvent Jesus's power into something only they can have. The pope is the only man who is god as well, only he can connect to it.

    I think it's interesting that the Bible was only accepted as it is in it's modern form centuries after the death of Jesus. In a time when most people don't read or write it's an entirely oral tradition. Why were texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls not included? You have to question the source of information when it comes to the true life of Jesus.
     
  17. NubbinsUp

    NubbinsUp Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Jesus is the English spelling (Iesus in Latin, Iesous (Ἰησοῦς) in Greek) of the name alternatively rendered as Yeshua (ישוע) and Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ) in ancient Hebrew, and as Isho in Aramaic. In Modern Hebrew, it's Yeshu (ישו). Yes, the Spanish given name Jesus and the English given name Joshua, are very common modern derivations of the same ancient name.

    It's a common male name, and there were certainly many men with this name living 2,000 years ago in the land that is today Israel and Palestine.

    There really isn't any credible controversy or doubt about this. A number of ancient texts refer to men with this name. Variant spellings are what you get when you're transliterating a word, including a proper name, from one language to another when the two languages use different alphabets and over a period of thousands of years.

    So did a historical Jesus exist? Not just one, rather many. Common actual name. Not made up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  18. wrat1

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    Ok sorry cannibals, and just because millions believe something does not make it so/right etc, after all Millions voted for Trump and not all were stupid
     
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  19. Tishomingo

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    True, which is why, if we want to be really precise we should specify Yeshua ha-Notsri (Jesus of Nazareth), or some would say ha-Mashiach (the Messiah). It's kinda like Elvis though. There may be lots of others, but if you say Elvis without specification, we assume you're talking about the King. And there are still lot's of Jesuses in the phone book (mostly Hispanic), but without further specification, the King again will come to mind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  20. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    I am quite sure Jesus existed. Initially the bible did not make much sense to me at 16, but I was able to do so after studying other religious philosophies like Buddhism, Advaita , Sufism and Taoism. The philosophical depth in his teachings showed me that Jesus could have actually existed and is not just a fictitious figure.

    It requires a subtle intellect to understand the biblical teachings and metaphors of Christ, which has a lot of deeper meaning, and which cannot be grasped by just the literal interpretation of the bible.
    Such a literal interpretation can be dangerous, imho, as the christian sect of Skoptsy's who misinterpreted purity with self-maiming and castration.That is ludicrous and absurd as the sexual energy is needed for spiritual creativity and development as well.

    Some literally take the devil as an external entity, when the issue is just the weak, negative mind out of self-control and direction. The weak, negative oriented mind is the devil, but people look for it externally with fear. Excess of fear in this regard and also with misinterpreted teachings of eternal hellfire can also lead to mental health issues, which can be counter-productive spiritually.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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