Is it time to talk about guns?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    That would be proper procedure if we were talking about something debatable. The purpose of the second amendment isn't. Most people know that. If you don't know common knowledge, don't blame me for not going to extremes to be your teacher. If you think my assertions of common knowledge are incorrect, it's your job to correct me with citations, not mine to support what's already well known.
     
  2. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    What argument is that?
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I guess you listen or watch different news sources than I do.

    The ones I viewed showed videos, both in real time and recorded of violent armed attacks on Capitol police.
    I think you are having trouble understanding that an armed attack doesn't need to involve firearms.
    Note an instrument of attack.

    Same with the word insurrection:
     
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  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So please clarify for me. What do you think the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is and how does your interpretation or understanding of the Supreme court decisions regarding the 2nd agree or disagree and how does your interpretation support or negate the current gun laws?
     
  5. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Again, they weren't revolting against the government in their minds, they were protecting the government.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Well, I'm asking for clarification of your views in regard to the 2nd and current gun laws.
    Please restate as I forget your stance as we have been going off track.

    1. Do you think the 2nd allows you to own any type of weapon at all?
    2. Do you think any type of gun legislation is contrary to the 2nd?
    3. Do you think the 2nd was put into place to overthrow the Republic through the use of violent action through the use of firearms?

    I think that's enough for now.
    After you answer and state your reasons for your answers I'll reply by telling you what I think of my questions and your replies.
    Then we can have a discussion about our views.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
  7. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    What does it matter what "I think"?

    I am in no position to exercise any control on the populace.
     
  8. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Quote my statement which you're having problems with so I can click it and go back to whatever it is. It appears you have gone down a rabbit hole.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yeah, I understand. But that doesn't excuse their actions.
    It may mitigate the penalty they have to pay, but they still broke the law and attempted to stop the peaceful transfer of power.

    Tundra, these weren't brain damaged people or those with excusable mental deficiencies. They were people who are intelligent, productive citizens who are expected to be accountable for their actions.

    I can't see how you would excuse them just becasue they fell for propaganda.
     
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  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Sorry, I'm not taking the time to go through 54 pages of posts.
    That's why I asked those three questions.

    If you don't want to answer them with a simple yes or no or an in depth explanation I understand.
     
  11. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Why are you stating the obvious while insinuating it is correcting anything I've claimed?

    I never defended or excused those people's actions as proper.

    I noted that they had motivation which was completely ignored by the legacy media.

    More than that, even; they were demonized and ridiculed in the press.

    That is furthering the divide in this country and fueling hate among fellow Americans.

    Until we can learn to try to understand differing points of view and present issues as multifaceted, people are going to keep up with the nasty infighting and continue escalating it.

    Maybe a new question to ask is, "why do we like that so much?"

    We all know the election wasn't transparent and that it had issues. If the congress had initiated a bipartisan probe into election integrity instead of rehashing the events of that incident then we'd be on the road to greater unification as one people.
     
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  12. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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  13. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Your questions aren't addressing anything specific that I said.
    And there's really no clear-cut answers, which is why opinions vary so greatly.
    I see it as a balance between letting the people have their tools to do their jobs, and their recreational activities -vs- allowing free reign of terror. And anyone pushing unlimited access or advocating practical abolition is not promoting a balanced solution.
     
  14. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    If that's the case then they are all deluded fools.
     
  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    That's good, I had thought you were attempting to excuse their actions.
    I don't know where you are getting that the media ignored the mob's motivation. If you wish I can cite a multitude of press releases that point to propaganda coming from Trump and his minions. But that's a lot of work for me.
    In fact the media has been constantly reporting on the Jan. 6 commission and what it's found so far.
    Now I admit I don't watch FOX news or any right wing outlets so perhaps they're ignoring the mob's motives and placing the sole blame on them, I don't know.

    As far as demonizing them, in what way? I have seen many reports of what they did and planned to do. Is that what you mean?
    I believe that's what the Jan. 6 commission is for.
    Why do we like what so much?
    Really?
    It’s Official: The Election Was Secure
    2020 election ‘most secure in American history,’ federal election security officials say
    Trump’s own officials say 2020 was America’s most secure election in history
    Fact check: Courts have dismissed multiple lawsuits of alleged electoral fraud presented by Trump campaign
    By the numbers: President Donald Trump's failed efforts to overturn the election


    Congress did try to initiate a bipartisan probe into the attack. non was needed for the election results themselves.
    Too bad the Republicans, blocked the recommended 9/11 type independent commission to look into Jan. 6 by filibustering.
    As a result the House Select Committee was formed. Of course Republican McCarthy pulled all his picks after he tried to get ringers on who are suspected of participating in the planning of the attack.
     
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  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I realize the question may not address anything specific you stated. I was asking what your views are in relation to the questions.
    I think there are clearly valid answers, if not then no laws, 2nd amendment or not, can apply to anything regarding guns.
    If you wish I can state what my answers would be.

    I don't know what you mean about tools to do their jobs. Do you mean law enforcement officers? They aren't private citizens and come under different rules and laws.
     
  17. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    "We all know the election wasn't transparent and had issues."

    SAYS YOU , TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!! BULLSHIT!! SMARTEN THE FUCK UP!!:mad:
     
  18. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    Italian thermostats
     
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  19. myndtyme

    myndtyme Banned

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  20. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    You know, the thing is, in reality there's no way to verify whether their suspicions were valid or invalid. So deluded, could be. Fools, definitely. Thinking they could force their way into the chambers and, what, at that point? I'll call it a mindless leaderless mob with no plan. Winging it on a whim, angry and disappointed. No rational thought process at all. There was nothing they could accomplish, they'd never get away with it, and they'd make a bad name for their cause. Rational thought would have exposed that, had it been employed.

    There was a much larger number of people who came to show their concern over an election which had viable signs of corruption, and who never dared enter the building or get confrontational. They just wanted the election process investigated and were sensible enough to stay outside the perimeter.
     
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  21. granite45

    granite45 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    In all the days since the election there have been no “viable signs of corruption”. What few problems there were can be overwhelmingly laid on the dirty doorstep of Republicans. This doesn’t begin to address the widespread voter suppression efforts by Republicans that have shredded the voting rights act. The “corruption” issue has all the earmarks of efforts from the St Petersburg troll farm that T—- embraced.

    This is in the same league as the antivaxers who are going to do more research while systematically avoiding science and any pretext of logical investigation to embrace still more troll feces.
     
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