Am I a horrible person?

Fractual I understand completely what you are trying to say. I really do. And I have no problem with anyone who feels stronly enough about the matter to change their lifestyle and eating habits. Thats fine. I just happen to believe that animals have no rights. You view them as something more than I do. I look at a chicken or a cow and I see a hamburger or hotwings or a baseball glove.

Why do you insist on trying to make others feel bad about this?

And I dont mean this to sound like a personal attack either but who are you to say that I am not "informed" on the subject? How old are you again? I am as informed as anyone. But you dont see me running around trying to force a hot dog down your throat. Good grief leave people alone!

 

Thats great for you guys. I just think fake meat belongs in the same catagory as non-alcoholic beer, decaf coffee and breast implants. Whats the point?

 

hey, your an animal arentcha? you piss shit and eat to survive and are posting from what could be reffered to as a habitat am i right? and you feel right(this is questionable i guess )? lets be consistent, does this mean you have no rights as well? does that mean i am open to have my way with you?

i never "made you" or anyone for that matter feel bad about anything, maybe if you feel bad your concious is trying to tell you something, like find out the Truth!

i am to say you are not informed on the subject because you asked "what the point of meatless meats are" there are a TON of reasons to go veggie! sooooo many reasons, if youd like to know the MANY terrible things the meat Indsutry does and contributes to, just ask, be more than happy to fill you in.

and if you wanna be left alone, dont come in the veggie forum!!!

 

all I can say is that if you trully feel guilty and you say that you do...then it's simple...DON'T DO IT! And if you feel that's it not such a bad thing....then eat meat....

It's your decision, mostly everyone I know eats meat and I don't consider them to be bad people...you're only bad if you FEEL your doing something wrong and you still continue doing it.

Hope that helps...

 

the point is that there are alot of alternatives, many of which are 'familiar', for those who are switching over to vegetarianism. its a big switch for some and this helps make it smoother. fake meat, decaf coffee and non-alcoholic beer aren't really in the same category as plastic boobs though...

 

Take it as you wish.

There are veg*ns out there who respond to people like headymoechick very fiercely. You are one of them. That doesn't mean you're bad or evil, it doesn't mean you're close-minded, it doesn't mean you're misguided or even unjustified in saying what you mean. And it certainly doesn't mean you're an idiot.

I simply said to headymoechick, that she shouldn't judge all veg*ns by your arguably hot-headed example. Especially since most veg*ns don't jump all down other people's throats, such as you did.

By the way ... you don't have to define patronizing for me. I'm smart enough to know what it means, as are you, undoubtedly. If you feel I was patronizing in any way ... well ... perhaps you should go READ YOUR OWN FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD.

Man ... ... really.

 

Hehe. I see it a bit differently ... non-alcoholic beer doesn't do the same thing as alcoholic beer; but fake meat does do the same thing as real meat. Same with decaf coffee, and partially so with breast implants (they don't exactly produce any milk).

 

This seems to be a common theme in this forum, yet you're here challenging us, we're not in some other forum challenging you.

 

Well then presumably you're smart enough to realise that you're being patronising again?

I see. So my response to one particular post causes you to categorise me and label me despite the patience and understanding that I've show to other meat-eaters who've posted here when other veggies have been laying right into them? Doesn't that strike you as a little simplistic? Doesn't it also strike you as a little arrogant to label another person in such an insulting and constrictive fashion?

Your defence of your position completely fails to address the fact that you accused me of being incapable of "representing my thoughts in constructive ways". Which is patronising and insulting. Not to mention hypocritical - it's ok for you to insult me, but if I'm less than 100% tactful I'm not being constructive?

Yes, but that's not what you simply said, is it? I'll remind you again..... you said I was incapable of "representing my thoughts in constructive ways". That's not an argument. That's not an opinion. That's just a plain old personal attack. If you want to lecture me about being constructive then the smart thing would be to do it without name-calling.

Furthermore, I don't generally jump down the throats of meat-eaters. In fact, I'd say I'm one of the more tolerant people on this forum when it comes to dealing with non-veggies. I do, however, have little patience for ridiculous arguments that we've had to put up with time and time again like "if we all stopped eating meat cows would take over the world". That's not an excuse for you to launch into a smart-assed personal attack on me. Alienating other veggies and creating further division is hardly constructive, is it? If you don't agree with the way I addressed the original poster, then try saying so without being rude and insulting. That'd be far more 'constructive' don't you think?

 

*sigh* here we go ...

I'm glad you finally picked up on it. Yes, it was purposeful this time, don't worry.

You'll have to forgive me: I haven't seen any posts by you that show the "patience and understanding" that you speak of. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm ONLY saying I haven't seen them. And, who said I was labelling you? I simply told headymoechick to not judge everyone by your example. And ... well, that kind of response is ... at the least, a little over the top, wouldn't you agree? And this isn't the first post I've seen by you which is written in that fashion.

And yeah, people label other people. That's because it's easy and efficient, even if inaccurate. No doubt you've labelled me with the "patronizing" thing, but you know what, people label me all the time, for better or for worse. I'm not getting upset about it. No doubt headymoechick labelled you after your post; if you are concerned about people labelling you, perhaps you shouldn't be posting like you are. I mean, headymoechick was pretty insulted by your post, and no doubt thinks lower of you. So do I. Get over it. I'm sure you think lowly of me, too; but I could care less.

It's the Golden Rule that you learn in kindergarten: treat others the way you want to be treated. If you don't want people to insult you ... don't insult them first. It's as simple as that.

There is a BIG difference between being constructive, and then saying things like "only when you say something as rediculous as ..." then quote a person just to be mischeiveous and insulting, and then go on to insinuate that that person is giving bullshit excuses for whatever reason (not like that person needs to give bs reasons on these boards for any reason). I mean, just go re-read your post, you don't say ANYTHING that is constructive on it; it's all bashing and demeaning.

With a post like that ... you expect me to believe that you ARE capable of representing your thoughts in constructive ways? I apologize, but ... if your posts only insult people and don't actually say anything that is useful to the person ... then it's hard to see things your way.

Look at my first post: It wasn't insulting, it was informative.
Look at yours: It was insulting, and made the original poster angry for obvious reasons.

Now ... when you insult someone, especially if they're giving an earnest effort, it makes people mad. And I personally find your reply to be a bit out of place. So you know what they say ... fight fire with fire, or fight insults with insults.

I know what I said was a personal attack against you, but ... well, it's not like you're in a position to be angry with me for that. Your post was the first one that had a bunch of personal attacks in it, and you can't expect to say something rude (and patronizing, by the way; go reread it) and then have people not say things that are rude (and patronizing) back to you.

If it's not an excuse for launching a smart-assed personal attack on you,
Then it's NO excuse for launching a smart-assed personal attack on other people!

You're being hypocritical here; you're defending yourself doing the exact same thing that you're condemning me for doing! Person A comes up with something (an excuse in this case) that you think is rediculous. So you insult them. But then it's not okay for Person B to find something that you said (an insult in this case) to be rediculous, and insult you back?

You're right; I don't agree with the way you addressed the original poster. But don't place the burden of being well-mannered on ME if you're the person who is having trouble saying something well-mannered to begin with.

And I'd appreciate it if you stopped with the "patronizing" thing; possibly go reread your first post to see just how "patronizing" you can be. You're looking down on headymoechick in exactly the same way that you're condeming me for looking down on you.

 

I am not "challenging" anyone. I am not trying to change anyone's mind or trying to convince anyone that they are wrong. I dont think that headymoe should have to feel guilty that she likes a hamburger or a steak every now and then.

And I am not trying to be an ass here (hehe... my wife says I dont have to try). Just expressing my own viewpoint. Why do you have to get your panties all twisted over it?

I can understand your views and I respect them. I just wish you could do the same.

 

Don't worry, Drummin, I ain't got much more to say.

I think this sums your attitude up nicely, really. You expect me to measure up to your standards of politeness, yet you apparently feel free to be as rude and abusive as you like. Rather than encourage me to understrand your point of view, your first reaction is to launch a personal attack. You're a hypocrite. You can't preach the moral high ground from the gutter.

 

I don't think a one-line reply qulaifies as 'getting my panties in a twist' really, does it?

Anyway, I don't think you're being an ass. I'm just pointing out that you advised us veggies to 'leave people alone', yet here we are quietly tucked up in our veggie forum. It's you meat-eaters that are coming to us, not the other way around.

 

"I can understand your views and I respect them."

the deer picture in you sig speaks volumes about this respect.

 

"Am I a Horrible Person?"

Yes

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

Fractual, I noticed you live in Norfolk, do you work for Peta?

about this topic.... it will be easier to become vegetarian if you find the path that leads you to the timeless, powerful zen feeling of not contributing to animal suffering. Try your best to believe that your effort counts (I believe mine does and I am not into any type of quackery) and that your silent protest (and not so silent if you ever get the opportunity) will make a mark on the record of human progress.

*steps down from soapbox*

 

Now I remember why I stopped coming here.