Female and male IQ disparities

I recently watched a C-Span Book TV show with Charles Murray, co-author of "The Bell Curve".
In that book Murray briefly postulated that female intelligence is distributed differently than male. Female IQ is distributed in the population as a bell curve, while male IQ is distributed equally across the IQ spectrum.
Murray stated carefully and somewhat guardedly, that fewer women score at the extreme ends of the IQ spectrum, while men are consistently represented across the board. There are both more geniuses and more idiots among men, and women cluster around the middle, or "average".

It raises an extremely important sociological question - if true, there are 10 times more men with genius IQ’s (above 145) as there are women in the population (given an even distribution of male to female). But if THAT'S true then women are much less likely to qualify for the most demanding scientific and managerial positions, which demand the highest intellectual component.

So if true this is an enormously difficult problem society, especially politically-correct bullshit society, has to face.

Any thoughts?

 

IQ tests are bullshit.
(no offense to you and your pals at Mensa)

 

Um ... no offense taken ... but are you suggesting that IQ cannot be measured, or that the measurements are inefficient, or perhaps that IQ is a too-encompassing concept? I'm not quite sure what the "bullshit" component in your statement refers to.

 

They're both shaped like a bell curve, but the curves look slightly different. It is indeed true that male IQs have a higher standard deviation, so the male IQ bell curve is wider and flatter. As you also said, female IQs cluster around the middle, so the female IQ bell curve is taller and narrower.

However, I don't think that there are any jobs that really demand a "genius" IQ to be successful. I firmly believe that quantum physics and string theory are well within the grasp of any smart, scientifically-inclined person. With managerial positions, innate intelligence takes a backseat to foresight and vision anyway.

Also I think it is worth noting that IQ scores measure a very narrow range of intelligence. You can be the best manager in the world, but still not be able to solve logic puzzles. You could discover a groundbreaking new scientific theory even if you can't complete word analogies.

 

Do you say that because you know enough about I.Q. tests to have a valid opinion or do you know it because you heard it and enjoy emulating others, perhaps you know it because you have made observations of people who said they had high I.Q.s and they were stupid sons of bitches?

I know how the system works, it's valid, intellectual intelligenc is not always apparent and humans often colour opinions with emotion, that's what we do, I've seen websites that "test I.Q." and I can tell you that those are bull shit because I.Q. is not just a number pulled out of someones ass, your age is needed for calculation, that's just how the shit works, Now I know you've at least read some vonnegut so you can't be a total ass, just please not with the irrational blurts

 

I don't see why it would be conterversial at all to suggest that men and womens brains work in different ways, but to some people, it is.

Imagine if somebody hypothesized that different ethnic groups brains were structured differently... now that would piss some people off.

But it is likely that both men and women and different ethnic groups brains have subtle structural differences, and studying them can help our understanding of the structure of the brain.

PC is almost as dangerous for science as the catholic church was in 1500.

 

it was said a few years ago that women had better verbal skills, no one freaked about, the sword doesn't cut both ways

 

True dat.

I, personally, am educated far beyond my intelligence.

 

I really do think that IQ tests aren't a good measure of intelligence, and this is coming from someone who has tested on several different occasions in the genius range (had to take a ton of them with school for the gifted program at various stages spanning from 1st grade til recently). If you don't do well with tests, then you're not going to do well on an IQ test. Also, I think IQ is dispersed in different ways, like has been said- verbal and math, but there is also an element of creative genius as well that really isn't tested. There's so many factors that go into reasoning and intelligence that there's no real effective way of measuring it. Sure, the IQ test is the most applicable and well-accepted, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's foolproof. Putting a number on intelligence doesn't seem like a reasonable measurement, but then again, there's really no purpose for IQ tests other than to satisfy egos or, like in my case, placement into programs to stroke your ego.

 

This is probably true, and certainly better than the moronic "IQ tests are bullshit", but I think you would accept that a doctor, for example, with an IQ of 145 would be more effective, more innovative and probably more successful than one with an IQ of 115 (the minimum required for physicians).
Regarding managers, no doubt a high IQ is not as helpful as other less-easily measured factors such as social skills, so again I take your point. But it depends on the business. Bill Gates has a recorded IQ of 170 (or 174) and almost no social skills, and certainly no dress skills, but in his business this is probably helpful. 170 would probably take care of the "vision thing".
Other than wishing to appear flippant I would say that a higher "measurable" IQ is preferable to a lower one, regardless that there are types of intelligence that are extremely difficult to measure, such as Intuition and Invention for example.

My point here, and it has been echoed here, is that male and female IQ's AND abilities differ, and that these play a role in the real world that Political Correctness seeks to rectify in a clumsy and altogether unsatisfying manner. Further that there are serious sociological problems that develop as a result.

 

although i have a high IQ, i do not think IQs are relevant. ive been called an idiot by dumb people, and have tended to agree with them. i personally think that the women are smarter (thats right) but have to rely on thier intellegence less than men have to rely on thiers.

 

I don't think women are smarter, but in my experiences, we tend to be more observant and aware of our surroundings. Call it a woman's intuition if you will, but we seem to be able to gather and store information, store it away, and predict outcomes well. Any high school girl can tell you that just based on high school drama. It would be nice if more girls transfered that skill into something useful instead of mindless gossip.

My close friend has an IQ (supposedly) of 165, the biggest mathematical genius I've ever met. However, all that brainpower is worth nothing because she has no motivation, ambition, or drive to use it. If you are someone of an average IQ, but put work into your education and find practical uses for it, then IQ becomes completely irrelevant.

 

i usually can agree with your thinkin girl, but i have to disagree with this one. it can be a very intellegent decision to not apply yourself. the Toaists call it the usefulness in being useless. in an ideal world (and our intuitive minds still deal in the ideal world) this is not so, it would be good to apply oneself, but in the real, devils world of currently prevailing capitalism, it is very imprtant to not be capitalized upon, as it takes up your freetime which could be better used to relax and enjoy life. and enjoyment of ones days outwieghs all the gold in the world, and definatley beats crunching away 60 hrs a week your whole life to make someone else a buck.

 

Although slightly off-topic I think this is well said.

 

very well said.
*cough* (pompous ass) *cough*
yes, a bunch of geniuses up in here. congrats, old sport.

"...but not me, I say, the women are smarter in every way."

 

She would love that... she's a wanna-be Taoist but claims she isn't optimistic enough to really put her heart into it. I agree that if you're enjoying your life that way then it's fine, but she isn't. Alot of potential wasted because of an abusive boyfriend (another place when often times men and women differ- women go with their heart and let it take them down low roads too often). 'Tis tragic.

The way I see it, I would much rather use my intelligence to help the world now, make enough money to live off of, and then enjoy it then enjoying life in the present but not knowing where the future is going to take you. Captalism is going to screw you either way. /off topicness

 

IQ tests are generally worth a little less than the paper they're written on. Traditionally they're weighted towards pattern recognition and logical thinking so me will score higher as thats a type intelligence that tends to favour men, although I know they've changed in recent years to cover more types of intelligence. Also its already been brought up that what you choose to with what intelligence you have is far more important.

 

I was assigned an IQ of 148 when I was eleven, and I was an idiot. I mean it. I didn't have any desire to succeed in school, never did homework, goofed off and hung with the 'bad crowd'. That was the story right through to grad, six years later. In grade eleven, I took a course that was for 'gifted' students, and you needed to be in the top 2 percentile to qualify. Being a jean jacketed, heavy metal fan, with long hair, and an aroma of burning leaves about me, I didn't fit in with the rest of the 'spastics', which we wanted to call the course instead of 'gifted'.
Last year I took a multiple intelligences test and was rated in the 99.4 percentile for scoring high across a wide range of categories.
I wrote a thesis on the nature of intelligence, and concluded that it is a subject of debate, without a clearly agreed upon definition. I would fail an Australian Aboriginal People's IQ test miserably.....I guarantee it.

But I digress........
The single personality quality of being able to delay gratification, as tested in four year old kids, was a better predicter of post secondary education success than IQ. And that is one of many psychological traits and emotional qualities that are important for life success.
IQ tests tell us how well we can write IQ tests......and that's about it.

 

In all the honors courses I attended in high school, girls outnumbered boys by about 5 to 1.

See what I mean about being an idiot.

 

A comment on IQ tests generally, directed to those who disregard the value of IQ.

There is a difference between IQ tests and aptitude tests. The latter are usually timed tests and measure inductive/deductive reasoning, spatial ability and language, and are mostly used for streaming purposes and by the military. They are less accurate than an untimed IQ test but obviously easier to administer.

What I do find interesting is that properly normed tests seem consistent, certainly for me anyway. I have done quite a few tests over the years, including a test supervised by a psychologist, and my IQ has consistently been graded within 2 points.

Regardless that intelligence is a very difficult concept to define, I think there is a general consensus among psychologists that IQ, or the "g" factor, is real.