I'm not talking about those done by activist doctors illegal, I'm talking about abortions by boyfreind and those just in it for money for example if a mob docter fucks up a abortion and kills the women that women will just never be found for years.
There isn't really a word that accurately describes them. They're "human" in the sense that they have human DNA, but that is not one of the defining characteristic of a human as far as I'm concerned, at least in the philosophical sense...a corpse has human DNA too. There's not one moment where they're not human beings, and the next moment they are. Both sides of the abortion debate seem to embrace this fallacy. Just as it's illogical to say that a fetus is not human one second before it's born but is human one second after it's born, it is also illogical to say that a sperm and an egg cell are not human one second before they fertilize but is a human one second after they fertilize. It's a gradual process, but I would hesitate to confer "human" status (philosophically, not legally) on any infant less than one year old. As the brain develops, they become more self-aware.
"I have a question. not to totally piss of everyone, but why do the hippies take the side of pro-choice in the abortion issue. i know it's a right women should have, but in a sense, it is murder. and i've seen people in this thread stick up for prisoners, animals, and plants lives. but we are killing innocent babies, who have no voice or speak in their lives. i think it is time women stop having unprotected sex and relying on abortion to solve their problems. it is time they take responsibility for other living thing's lives." well, I am pro-choice, but when faced with the decision I chose to have my baby. If asked for advice I would attempt to convince the woman to have the baby, and have an adoption if she really couldn't handle a kid...however...I believe it should be everyone's choice. I was one of the ones who talked about plants not having a voice, but I can say yea it IS sometimes neccesary to kill a majestic old tree if your kids have to have a roof over their heads and the tree is getting into the foundation...the choice should be there...I wouldn't want "them" to make it illegal to cut down a tree
hi there in short when you have lived enough time on this earth you will realize that its not just us HIPPIES that agree to abortion . and is a choice that is not taken lightly by woman you silly little girl........ how can it be murder it grows in a mothers body to survive it needs the female body........to grow.... and if you understood that half the world is under pressure by religion to not have protection, ie a condom...but still have to have sex with thier husband ie africa woman dieing from hiv, and other things.... so i feel you need to research the world of woman before you accuse them of solving a problem with an abortion you can not tell adult woman to not have sex in a place where they are scared of what may happen to them and then say no abortions to those who need them, i bet you havent thought about how the world oppresses woman with plastic tits super models sex videos of fake lesbians with a straight guy......sex sells most things..... yet here in the uk i can not go naked in my garden but i can see a naked woman in the paper .......... so theres a problem oppression towards woman ie, stop abortions .let the woman suffer with a child they may not want , oh adoption well no thats no good either,how does it feel to give up the living baby compared to having an abortion........... no sex, well comeon when you have grown up you may answer that yourself woman and men enjoy sex.... thank you for interesting thread my 14 year old daughter just wrote an essay about woman oppression in the world and the rights for obortion in very difficult situations. and she is still a child...... love npeaace good luck from saff
Can you ensure that every child will find a family?? I don't like the idea of abortion but I don't see alot of other options at this point in society. Adoption is definitley not a rock solid answer.
one more thing i forgot our governments allow tests on aborted babies they have tested on these for many years i see no mention of this in this thread,,,,, should you not be asking the question dont take the chioce away from a woman to have a abortion, but stop all research for fertility treatments on the aborted baby and stop blaming the woman start being more open minded to the human beings alive and living with wars with poverty........ then you will see the truth about this world thank you gain from saff a socialist party member branch organiser cambs uk and we support all woman issues right down to condoms for cathlic woman... and no research on the babies after aborted.. but hay im just another woman fighting for living standards that are fair not divided.................. and answering this sort of thing maybe when you have been in the situation to need a abortion or know someone then you will be morw aware.. yes its alive inside but life is outside wake up to this.......
Abortion isnt an issue... it's a non-issue used to take away peoples attention from the REAL issues. More laws will save babies from abortions!!! kiss my ass! abortions will still happen, and they will endanger the life of the mother because they will not be in proper medical facilities. And anyone who uses the term "flip-flopper" ... im not going to fi nish that sentence... Pro lifers usually (not all) tend to be hardcore christians who have this view that Humans are more important than any other animal.... that pisses me off. Screw abortion, lets stop the caviar trade... LOL. Abortion laws just mean more people (probably blacks) in prison... and more of our money going to pay for those prisons while those prisons are used to benefit corporations which in turn influence the government by giving candidates $$
Over 50% of women who have abortions were using birth control the time they conceived. So much for the "slutty women having unprotected sex" argument. And adoption isn't the miracle solution pro-lifers try to portray it as. For one, the woman actually has to go through the entire pregnancy. Pregnancy should be a choice, not a punishment for having sex.
republicans try to pretend like they care so much about human life... but once that baby is out of the womb, they dont haev SHIT for them... your on your own now, you can starve and die for all they care.
Unless of course, you've been braindead for the last 15 years. Then they must do everything to keep you alive. (Sorry, that was a cheap shot, but I couldn't resist.)
Can you cite any factual evidence that large numbers of women were dying mysterious deaths prior to Roe v. Wade in the US, or that this has been happening in Poland since abortion was largely outlawed in the 1990s? A corpse is dead. An unborn baby is a developing human life. There is no scientific basis for describing the unborn as anything other than human. Scientifically speaking, a new organism is formed at conception, and this same organism is born ~9 months later. Basically all that occurs in between is growth and development. Why not also deny them legal protection, as Peter Singer advocates? So by this logic, the mentally disabled are less human than others? There is no shortage of available adoptive couples for newborns; there are 1-2 year waiting lists for babies in most major cities. It is not a "punishment," but a natural consequence. Why should the unborn be killed for the sake of convenience?
ok: first of all The mother If the mother really doesnt want the baby she's about to have, what's going to make her love it when she's had it? who says she won't physically and mentally abuse the child for 'ruining her life'? not really the greatest life to lead where you find out your parents wanted an abortion to get rid of you but only the law stopped them... The Child If this child is going to be mentally ill to such an extent that life is deemed sub-standard, then what's the point in forcing the child to go through this pain and then probably die prematurely? The Rest You can't actually force someone to have a kid. Not really. If the parent really doesn't want this child then they will probably find some back-alley abortionist to do it and possibly risk her life too. If abortion is legal then at least people are doing it safely, same principle with many things. In the end, everyone's going to die so what's the point? and to the comment about the fact that if there were no new babies then the human race would become extinct I say: Good, that's the Earth's problems gone then.
"Scientifically speaking, a new organism is formed at conception, and this same organism is born ~9 months later. Basically all that occurs in between is growth and development." Actually, and organism must be comprised of organs. All it is at conception is a large and rapidly reproducing cell. A lot occurs between then and birth. Cells specify into semi-organs, neurons move around and make connections in the brain, cells die between fingers so that they are separate, lots of really frickin' complex stuff. At birth you have a semi-fuctional human being. At conception you have a cell. That's it.
There is no definition for when something becomes alive that I know of. The standard christian view is at the moment of conception I believe. Can an organism of only a few cells possess a soul? Am I committing murder every time I take antio-biotics? I don't know. at the other extreme there is a list of 7 criteria you learn in secondary school that An entity must possess to be classed as alive. A human phetus doesnt meet all of these until quite a late stage when aboprtion is clearly unacceptable. With my feet back on the ground the job of the law should be to set a limit that all but the most extreme philosophies can agree on, and then let people make up their own mind within that. After all if we give people no way out then people will deliberately smoke, take drugs or harm themselves during pregnancy. Religion and philosophy is great but eventually we have to put our feet on the ground and work with the world we have.
The mob is very good at hiding its dead as it generates alot of dead bodies just with normal operations infact most dead bodies generated by the mob is found via devlopment in that after so many years someone builds something there and unearths a body killed by the mod decades ago. Thus the efficency of the mob at hidding bodies would mean that it would be hard to tell how much they fucked up abortions when they were in the biz and once abortion becomes illegal again the mob would once again be doing abortions and very good at hidding their mistakes. The unborn is less awarness then the cow that dies to feed us. The only one that cares about the death of the unborn baby is us humans as the unborn getting killed doesn't even know it exists yet and to the universe man kind in it entirety is insignifigant so the universe doesn't care either way.
"if it keeps on raining, levee's gonna break." -Led Zeppelin Play that backwards and you get the answer to the abortion argument
The impression I get of the republican side is that its very capitalist based. So it tends to favour the wealthy. I think one of the things that europeans find hard to grasp at times is the idea that heathcare isnt free to all. Though I dont pay much attention to American politics, it seems like the occult, get into it too deeply and you slit your wrists.
Equivocation. It may be "human" in the sense that it has human DNA, but it certainly is NOT "human" in the sense of being conscious and self-aware. And what exactly are we trying to preserve when people talk about protecting human life: Some cells that happen to contain human DNA, or a person's consciousness? So? You say "that's all that occurs" as though it wasn't important. A human zygote is nearly identical to a zygote of any other animal, except for the DNA. Even at five or six months, a human fetus is almost indistinguishable from a pig fetus. In my view it's simply a matter of practicality. The law has to draw a cutoff SOMEWHERE for legal protection, just like it does for driving age, drinking age, voting age, etc. Those laws don't imply that no one younger than the cutoff age is capable of making responsible decisions, nor do they imply that everyone above the cutoff age always acts responsibly. Similarly, having a moment-of-birth cutoff for legal protection would not have to imply anything about the consciousness of the newborn baby. Rather than trying to find a messy cutoff point sometime after they're born (which wouldn't even be applicable to all fetuses), it makes more sense just to set the legal cutoff at the moment of birth. After that point, a lot of the reasons for ending the life disappear anyway. It depends HOW mentally disabled they are. If they're braindead and hooked up to a feeding tube, yes, they are less human than others as far as I'm concerned.
I believe the woman's right to control her own body is the deciding factor. She shouldn't be forced to carry a baby she doesn't want, whether it's a baby or a fetus, whether it's alive, isn't an issue in my opinion, the right to decide about your own body (as the dominant life form) is more important. If I ever became not just dependent (like many pro-lifers ask, what if you became disabled and had to be cared for around the clock) but also *physically attached* to someone else (impossible to actually occur, but as a hypothetical situation), they should be able to kill me if they didn't want to carry me around.
