Question about Jesus.

I have a question:

How can Jesus be the son of God and be God at the same time?

Not to offend anyone, but it's been on my mind lately.

 

Doesn't make sense eh? To me neither.. that's why I'm an atheist..

The fact is this, jesus (if he even existed at all) was nothing more than a normal person.. but a normal person is not good enough to base a religion around, so they have to make it bigger, he has to be the son of god, the messenger to the human race. And, well... it just escilated from there, first he's just the messenger, but then people started to worship jesus directly rather than god, and they needed to make it OK... and so turned him into god.

Or something like that, the fact remains, it makes no sence because it's bullshit... You might want to check this out: http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/creator/jesusmyth.htm

 

Three different manifestations of God.

You are a son
When you get married, you will be a husband
When you have a child, you will be a father

You are one person, yet, you will be all three of these things. In the same way, Christ is God the father, Jesus the son, and the holy spirit is his spirit.

 

He is not the son of God but a prophet from God, who says so?
The bible does;

"O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you..." Acts 2:22

For intance, look at these passages from the bible:

Mark 10:18 Jesus said “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”
How can Jesus(may peace be upon him) be God or the son of God when he doesn't accept absolut goodnes since this belongs to God?

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"
How can he be God when he can't do anything for him self?

The fact that it says "son of God" doesn't prove anything, the other prophets in the bible are called this aswell, all of them being servants not really the sons of God. Look at these passages below to see some examples:
Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."
Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

According to the bible God does not have children:
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19

Did God send down him self, so God could be sacrificed, so God could erase our sins because God had been sacrificed , then God died and before this God had said to him self on the cross:
My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? Psalm 22:1
Shouldn't he say, my self my self why have you forsaken me?
Does God pray to God?

Acually, the early christian scholars did not believe in God being 3 in 1, this was an innovation to the religion sent down to Christ(may peace be upon him)
What did Jesus teach? He teached the same genuine, clean and beautiful message that had been thought all the way back to the beginning of man:

The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Mark 12:29

This is what I believe as a muslim and this is what has been thought,
NOWHERE in the entire bible will you find the word trinity, though you do find it in the Quran:

O People of the Scripture!(jews and christians) Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah(God) except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit from [created by] Him; so believe in Allah(God) and His Messengers. Say not: "Three!'' Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One God, hallowed be He above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.[Quran 4.171]

​

 

He may be an uncle, a cousin, and grandfather as well, what about divorce or if his wife delivers another baby? Then all of a sudden, it changes doesn't it?

Why are you confusing your self here Epiphany, when the matter is clear. God is one, always has been and always will - without any partners or children-. How does one get a son anyway? Doesn't this sound disgusting, how dare you claim he inpreginated a women?

What do you think Moses, Abraham or Noah (may peace be upon them) would say if you told one of them that God can have a son? Would they pat you on the head gently and love this comment of yours or would you be thought to be some kind of a pagan? Then why would God change his mind about a thing he has made clear through all his prophets trough all ages and to all nations? According to your bible he wouldn't:

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19

Would he contradict him self? He is my saviour not a man, why ask Jesus(may peace be upon him) when one can ask God?

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 43:11)"

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"​

Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

 

It appears that you may be the one who is a bit confused:

Lord:
God - Gensis 2:1, 8, 15, 18, 19, 21, 22, etc.: "The Lord God"
Jesus - 1 Corinthians 8:6: "And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live".

Rock:
God - Deuteronomy 32:4: "He is the rock"
Jesus - 1 Corinthians 10:4 : "And that rock was Christ"

Saviour:
God - Psalm 68:19: "Praise be the Lord, to God, our saviour" "Our God is a God who saves.
Jesus - Luke 2:10: " A saviour has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord"

Shepherd:
God - Isaiah 40:11: "He tends his flock like a shepherd, he gathers the lambs in his arms
Jesus - John 10:14: "I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me"

All of those scriptures state that both God and Jesus Christ are Lord, rock, saviour and shepherd. If you take Deuteronomy 6:4 out of context, which you have, then all those passages would make the entire Bible one big contradiction. God is all three, Jesus is all three. Therefore, they are one. One Lord - three forms.

God has manifested himself in three forms: God, Jesus Christ (flesh while on earth), and the Holy Spirit (sent to live inside the believer after his fleshly death on earth). God coming down to earth in flesh form is called a theophany. A theophany is a visable manifestion of deity. God also manifested himself as a burning bush when appearing to Moses (Exodus 3:2-6), and a pillar of cloud (Exodus 19:9 - The Lord states, "I am going to come to you in a dense cloud".)

"But before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:18)

"But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:20)

 

taxrefund90, do you see this? Two people of diffrent faiths arguing over the same guy, because neither of them have any stright facts, just fairytails...

Why? beause it's all bullshit, it's as simple as that. People have taken a story and twisted it to suit their own needs...

 

Jesus is an avatar...

It is in the Bhagavad-Gita (though I am too lazy to look up the exact verse) that whenever there is a drop in morality, faith, ect. God descends in to the form of a human in order to correct this. There are many avatars and all have come for a specific perpose depending on time and circumstance...

And Jesus is the son of God as well as God because he came as a human to this earth and all humans are the children of God...

 

The same way you are.

When I do something that God made for me to do- not only do I percieve myself doing it, but I also percieve God's action through me.

The actions we do are part of God's intent- so essentially it is God doing these things at the same time that we do them. Jesus said "The Father and the Son are one" which is to say that all actions that he did were actions of the Father as well. You just have to recognize that he is a child of God as we all are, and see the intent of God behind all of our actions. I am the Son of God, and at the same time am God.

I don't have the authority of Jesus to do miracles, because it would not be appropriate in this stage of my life. When it is appropriate (if ever) I will be able to do these miracles to demonstrate the power of God (not for my own glorification because I would not want to loose my relationship with God- but for the God that I am part of's glorification).

 

Jesus was egoless.

Of course, he knew who he was, but he acted without any self-interest, without any thought of personal, financial or political gain, without any thought of his own status or even his own survival. He acted with the sole intent of improving man's relationship to reality and to one another. It is argued that his every thought, word and deed was an expression of his faith, an expression of God himself, if you will.

In one sense, Jesus was like a great actor whose egolessness allows him to completely disappear into his art, like Ben Kingsley as Gandhi, Jamie Foxx as Ray Charles or Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison. Jesus performed the role of God incarnate, the divine human, God in human form, by embodying the human/divine qualities of Love, Truth, Peace, Consciousness, Wisdom, Creativity, Humility, Compassion, Mercy, Forgiveness, Unity and Mystery. He did this so well that there is, effectively, no difference between the actor and the role.

In a very real sense, Jesus represents God in human form. One of the big mysteries of Christianity is the question - What kind of person has this kind of talent to do this so well?

Now, you are free to figure out what God is and what all of this means, or not, the choice is yours. It may take a while, but if you are patient, reasonably aware of your own intelligence and willing to try, then all of this will eventually make sense to you. Some of the greatest minds of the past 2,000 years (Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Rembrandt, Leonardo da Vinci, Dante, Mohammad, Gregory, Origin, Paul of Tarsus, etc.) have focused on this issue.

On the other hand, if, for whatever reason, you consider yourself above all of this and are unwilling to at least try to understand what others believe, then you have just about as much authority to teach others about religion as you do to perform surgery, land an airliner, or write a poem in a language you don't speak.

Peace and Love

 

Trinity is an innovation which came about around the year 381 AC, this so as to unite the roman empire with one creed. Many were pleased with it since it was some kind of compromise between their old pagan beliefs and monotheistic beliefs. If trinity really is such an important subject why does God not speak about it more often, why isn't the word even mentioned by Jesus(may peace be upon him) or God in the bible?

The holy spirit is Gabriel, and I do not say this to you just because we find it in the Quran but because of the fact that we find it in the bible as well:
Compare these two verses;

“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise; when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”

“And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.” (Luke 1:26-27)

The bible was sent down as guidance and light but now it has been changed thorugh the hands of men. Some verses are rejected by many scholars, other are very doubtful etc.
For instance, look at the last verses in Mark 16, were Jesus(peace be upon him) is claimed to have said that a believer in him will be able to drink venom without even getting hurt by it and that they shall take up serpants with their hands.
This is taken from the New internation version(NIV) notes:

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark.
They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"

The following verse has been PROVED to be false, roman catholic priests don't even have it in their bible:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."1 John 5:7

The revised version of the bible deleted this verse without even a note! The NIV wrote a note along with it where it says:

"1 John 5:8 not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century"

Thus, if it can be changed here what stops these people from adding a litte more of their own words in the rest of the bible?

And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues, so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: This is from Allah, but it is not from Allah and they speak a lie against Allah while they know it. [Quran 3.78]

It says that Moses(peace be upon him) was afraid that something like this would be done by his nation.

27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the LORD while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die!


29. For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made.[Deuteronomy]


Thus we conclude:
The bible has been changed and this is why some verses contradict others converning Jesus(peace be upon him) but the truth will at last demolish falsehood:

...that they might know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." John 17:3

You can continue in worshiping Jesus(peace be upon him) and thus reject what he thought:

“Jesus said to him: ‘Away from me. Satan! For it is written: Worship the Lord your God, and Him only.’” (Matthew 4:10)

 

if you have read the same version i have...it goes with the painting of Krsna killing his uncle or whatever...

Thats why its easy for me to accept Moses, Mohammad, Buddah etc [those whom never claimed to ne God, nonly fom Him] as prophets, and the Jesus and Krsna as incarnations of God, all meant to teach mankind The Way/Truth...as rev. Lovjoy off the simpsons say

"Ned, hae you though about any of the other religions, they're all bascially the same"

 

I think Buddha counts as an avatar too...because in the Bhagavad-Gita they talk of him as an incarnation of the Vishnu aspect of God, just as Krishna was...

I like the way that Paramahansa Yogananada talks about it best...there's a lot about Krishna and Jesus in Man's Eternal Quest and The Divine Romance

 

yes, but Buddah never claimed to be anything [well Jesus technically never did either] but i mean, Buddah was never "worship me"...

 

I once posted an article about this which states that it's not a contradiction at all, but nobody understood it...so too bad.

 

I read my Bible. I don't recall Jesus saying he was God.. I think that's blasphemy for anybody. My spirit leads me to understand that Jesus is filled with God's spirit and we are filled with Jesus's spirit, which is God's spirit.. Before we had Jesus nobody was making it to heaven because we CAN'T live by all God's rules. We're people . Its's not possible. If it was we wouldn't need Jesus.. This is why I hate Religons. I myself am spiritual and I don't look to man for guidance..

 

the turth is he IS NOT GOD he is god's son.Plain and simple.In the bilbe Jesus prayed right..who could he have been praying to if he was god.The line "he who has seen me has seen the father" means that he and god are both very simlaler mind and in aditudie.

 

How? Easy, God can do whatever he wants, if he wants to be Jesus, he can.

Is he? dunno, sounds too twisted when you think about who got Mary pregnant, and why he would need to be three for one in the first place. Isn't one enough? It gets too confusing with the whole trinity deal.

 

Maybe the trinity gets more understandable with this example:

So youve H2O, and it comes in gas, liquid, and solid form. All different shapes, under different circumstances, yet theyre all H2O. Same with the trinity, different shapes under different circumstances, but all God.

 

so are jehovah and jesus God? if this was true, wouldn't christianity be a polytheistic religion