we need a counterculture?

Doesn't it seem that in any society a counterculture is neccessary? There needs to be a place where good and decent people who cannot fit in with the establishment can go.

Perhaps any establishment that controls society - no matter what kind of people they are - is inevitably flawed. It does seem that way, any establishment that exists inevitably does unfair things to some good people.

Example: in the 50's mainstream society considered all black people to be second rate humans. False...black folks are as decent as white folks overall. But if they wanted to express themselves as full humans, they had to do it in the black subculture. Underground.

 

Establishments thrive on control. If the control is not there...the establishment dies. But unfortunatley the majority of people dont care enough to help the counter- culture. Imagine if millions of americans started buying all their clothes from independent makers.....or if people started growing the majority of their food on thier own. These corporations wouldnt know what to do with themselves. Imagine if every summer when all the magazines and media says that "pink sandals" are the new thing and for ONCE mainstream society doesnt go out and buy pink sandals. It is a lovely prospect....but I dont think it will ever happen. But the counter culture will NEVER die...EVER! And thank God because we need it so much!

 

No offense, but if we try and kill the corporations, we kill ourselves. Do you know how many millions of americans rely on jobs from big corporations? What job will they have if we subvert the fords, the microsofts and the apples of the world? Surely you(no offense) will not give them the money they need to live. Unless of course you are arguing for a marxist society or an agrarian society.

 

Good point. I realize that we could never try to impact corporate america without impacting the economy as a whole and just turning the world upside down! But I guess what I meant was, how nice would it be if life wasnt about that. Surely we could all survive without these corporations. We did for millions of years. We could all be simple and self sufficient....but yes, it would be hard....almost impossible to turn back now. And it will never ever happen. Nonetheless, there are those of us who dont have to like it and we wont go quietly. I think as long as we try our harderst not to surrender to the establishment as much as possible (its almost entirely impossible unless one devotes his/her life to that conviction) then we have not given up complete control and we are still owning some of our freedom. I refuse to be a slave. It isnt that they hold any amount of control...its that they own entirely TOO much of it.Does that make any sense?

 

well, if these guys that are working at big corporations now would become unemplyed, because suddenly everyone uses independet sources for whatever, a lot of new jobs on the independant market would open.....growing crops, and not delivering it to a big factory bakery, but baking one's own bread, you know...

 

Well said Kastenfrosch! I agree that we need not hold up the status quo for fear of it tumbling down around us. And if it did, well perhaps that would not be so bad....people would have to get creative and find new ways of living.

I love your signature picture too!

 

Yes how nice it would be if people started to, on a large scale, realizing that the "status quo" is a "crock quo" poop.

The media plays a large part in this...and the lemmings follow blindly.

But alas, you are correct, the last few and the present generations have pretty much bought into the whole "gotta keep up with the Jones'es" type of existence.

I do know there is a counter culture among our young...14-25 age group, that is interested in "doing no harm" to mother earth or each other.
They seem to be interested in getting back to nature and in touch with themselves.
But that is where it will remain..with any so called "counterness".

The masses are just too far gone.
Quality means nothing...quantity means everything.

Goods and services have steadily gone down hill.

Some one mentioned baking their own bread...heck there aren't any more neighborhood bakeries.
Bake it at home or get it store bought.
Kids today miss out on alot of the great things we had when growing up, this is a throw away society.
Make it cheap..when it breaks..they'll just buy more.
Consume mass quantities...

Self suficiency is the answer. At least that's the closest we'll come to having any quality in our lives....sure you can buy the best of everything, but who has an arm and leg extra to pay for it.Because anything thats made as it should be..now costs EXTRA.

If you want food without any crap sprayed on it...extra.
You want a pair of pants that won't fall apart after working in them and washing them a few times..extra.
Well made furniture...extra
A place to take your family on a decent vacation...extra
A car you won't have in the shop within the 1st 6 months...way extra.
Then there is tons of stuff..don't matter how much they charge it'll always be crap.
Like service with a smile...thats hard to come by anymore...people are fed up with their jobs and boy they will let you know it...go to a hardware store and if you can get someone to wait on you,your lucky, yeah well then ask them a question.....see how far that gets you.


What can you do to change the world?, you may ask.
Start with yourself.

Learn everything you can about making your own way, live as thrift wise as possible, reuse items when you can.
Teach your kids to grow their own food, and how to cook it.
Introduce yourself and your family to the library, not only do we get tons of books there, we entertain ourselves with movies, dvds and cds..all for free.
Pare down, sacrifice, and follow your dream if you want to move to the country it can be done.
Larry and I saved 20,000 in 2 and 1/2 years to make our move.
It was tough, but we wanted to get out of the city soooo bad.


Sorry, I get on rants like this....I wish for all of you to find a way to get out of that rat race...its not good for you or your kids,

hooray for the counter culture, for they keep the dream alive,
teepi

 

Let's just for say for the sake of simplicity that America is the center of a so called global empire, much like Rome. now, if there is this much resistance in the capitol of the new Rome, imagine how much resistance there is outside of this capitol. I doubt the entire world would ever allow themselves to be enslaves and controlled through fear the way Americans have let themselves be.

It seems that the rest of the world is a lot more intelligent than the average American, and thus would never let the same kind of abuse and corruption happen in their home as Americans tolerate. Europeans for example, are pretty enlightened about globalization, and the counter-culture over there is probably twice as large people-wise as the one over here.

But yea, America is digging its own grave. There pretty much is no more middle-class, and so many people feel so desperate and fed-up. Sadly, a lot of those people do not know how to stop it, they just keep on doing what they are doing. Once Iraq turns into a serious quagmire, it will start driving people to seek more social change, especially when former friends of theirs start coming home in body bags. The system has pretty much dug its own grave.

So yea, keep up the good fight. Stick it to the man, one smile at a time.

 

We should look for an Island in the pacific, that has not been discovered yet, and move there.

 

Eventually, it will all come tumbling down whether people want it to or not. The world only has so many resources. At our current rate, we will run out and we will be FORCED to a new way of life.

Unfortunately, most people don't want to admit that. I live in the South and most people here have the notion that the USA is always right and God gave us these resources and none of it will ever run out. Bull crap.

I am a Christian, but I know that God lets us "reap what we sow" Hence my husband and I are dedicating ourselves to self-suffiency and organic/eco-friendly living. There is a fantastic book on simple living called "Living More With Less" by Johanna Longacre. It is a wonderful book. It talks about the experiences of others living simply, how they do it, and what it means to them. It is however, written from a Christian perspective so it may not be for everyone. IT was eye-opening to me however to find so many earth-concious and world-concious people. What was also revealing is that the book was written way back in 1979! Despite much awareness, most people still are "keeping up with the Jonses" with heart attacks, obesity, Hummers and such to prove it.

I do think that the only hope for change is within ourselves and to keep the counterculture ALIVE and well to show others there is another way to live. I don't know how often I hear from others "Well, you just can't do it that way.", and "That's not how everyone else does it", "people will think you are wierd", "it's not very responsible to risk not having a 401K" ect. ect. Let us show others there is another way to live! Let us show that the counterculture is ALIVE and GROWING!

 

yea, we could call it Pala

 

I think the thing we need is a movement. As proud as I am of the hippie counterculture, I think a wider movement would best change society.

 

If we just lend a helping hand to our brothers and do what we can in a non-violent, peaceful way. But so many people don't believe, we have to try, not to make them or force them to believe, but to just show them what we're all about and see what happens from there.

 

Without a counterculture there would be very little change. Yesterday's counterculture is today's culture. Okay, maybe not to that extent, but people who argue for change eventually bring about change, even if they have to settle for a compromise.

 

That's true. There's always a change that will require compromise, but still it's a change nevertheless. Which is why we have to start now. Let's do things in the outside world that people will/won't embrace. Music, Art, Help, Protest, etc. That's what a counterculture is. A giant group that embraces a change in society that the culture doesn't accept.

 

every culture has a counterculture. It's called youth.

just biology, is all.

 

It's not that simple at all. Not all young people are part of the counterculture, and not all members of the counterculture are young. You're implying that it's made up of naive idealists who will outgrow it. That's true about some of them but there are plenty who dedicate their lives to bringing about realistic changes.

 

Self reliance takes some discipline. Moving forward to a simple life is hard for the average person. Consumerism, in my book, is indeed a dis-ease that has spread like a virus on this planet. People are sick with it and believe that these external things enhance them and make them feel better about their lives. This has been going on for a long time. The marketers are not blind to this either. They utilize it and drive us further from our spirits everyday.

Just look at some of the more recent commercials about cars and what-not, painters painting their soul and it's a jeep, deli-cuts lead to a guy sitting on a mountain with buddhist monk, etc.. Those tactics serve to debase the true nature of spirit and turn it into some silly gimmick. Look at how some large corps change their name and logos to fit a more 'wholesome' image. It's sickening yet it works because it serves to strengthen the illusion.

I know some teens who do take counter-culture seriously. They are distraught about the state of their world and I don't blame them. I do everything I can to help because when I'm an old fart pushing around in my walker they'll be the ones who are out there. On the flipside, there's the ones who see it simply as a fashion trend and a way to call attention to themselves. This drives me batty but hopefully the few good examples will be able to help them understand a little more. Think they'll actually listen to some old fart like me. Hah! I'm not pushing a walker yet but might as well be.

At present I think the best solution is to keep on keepin' on in setting an example of simplicity and a more wholesome life. Personally I'm fairly knowledgeable about gardening, making my own clothes (eegads, an adult male that can sew, the horror), riding a bike or walking, and pursuing knowledge just for the sake of learning,etc... Anybody I meet along the way that sees the same things is indeed a friend and an ally, no matter how old they are. You're right, we need a definite counter-culture that sticks to it's ideals in practice everyday.

 

There are many good arguments here and we are right to be concerned about our planet and our culture and the wasting of world resources.

It is true that we are only able to express our ideas and take action in the way we do as a result of the 'man in the street' being able to support the general infrastructure of our society. The fact we live in a protected world with state support ( albeit inadequate in many cases ) is the very reason we some people have the time and energy to discuss these issues.

The lone tribesman on the African plains couldn't give a toss about global warming or your social issues any more than an eskimo roughing it in the artic winds. They're only concern is to try and get enough food to feed their families and last out the winter or drought whichever the case may be.

Whatever you think and whatever your backround - you might not think so - but you are one hell of a lucky person to even be on this forum and own a computer and have an internet connection. How many of you don't have light, heating or a television? How would you cope with living on a dusty floor wondering where your next meal is coming from?

When the oil dries up they will bring back nucleaur energy or increase the amount of energy from windpower. You might protest and be against nuclear energy but faced with no heating and no light most of you will change your minds.

You might prefer anarchy and a hippie lifestyle but you would be the first to complain when the lights go out and you have no money any longer and social benefits cease to exist. This country cannot feed itself so Utopian dreams of living a back to nature lifestyle are only available for a few that opt out so long as the majority are there to fund it.

Lets all do our best to look after all the fluffy animals and support all the good causes out there but lets not forget that the society we have is the only one we know that works well enough to help provide for our well being. Sure, there are many changes we need to work on but lets not throw the whole engine overboard and then find we are stuck in a sinking ship with only wooden paddles.

Now, does anyone fancy opening up a commune in Birmingham?

 

the obvious solution would be for everyone to stop breeding until population is down to a more reasonable level, say 1 billion.