Anyone esle notice there is more than one Judas mentioned in the Bible? Also, how come everyone sees Judas as a betrayer, went Jesus Himself sent him out to do the deed, and then gets a bad rap for it, yet Peter denies Jesus 3 times as He says he will, and then there is no bad thoughts towards him? just some things i noticed
JC also denied his mother, but that truth didn't stop the roman church from twisting it to suit. Still at it to this day, the lot of them following the deceitful tradition. Old horny-head's having a pretzel-party with 'em.
"I was the Master's best friend he was the only man I knew It's been a tall harvest that he turned us all onto but my lips are sealed by history and my tale I cannot tell my name is Jude Iscariot and my home address is hell so baby don't you grieve after me no no don't you grieve after me. It was two hours gone midnight when he called me to his side he said 'Hey Jude I need you boy need you jude to take a ride you have to tell those guys downtown that my time is long overdue but wait a minute Jude don't stick around 'cause nobody's going to love you nobody's gonna dig you. Now you got all the siver and no forgiveness in your hearts And I got twenty feet of rope to end just where your guessing game starts I got endless books to write you but my tale I cannot tell 'cause the only way you'll ever see me is if your living in the same hell. So baby don't you gieve after me no don't you grieve after me." Roy Harper.
Okay, that little song there is pretty creepy, Roy Harper needs his meds I think. Anyhow, on the original topic. Peter did indeed deny Christ three times. However, he went on to become a very vocal advocate for Christ and eventuall was martyred for it. Judas on the other hand betrayed Christ to death on the cross, far worse than three deniles. Besides that he then went out and hanged himself (matthew 27:5) Had he instead repented and gone about preaching to everybody as Peter did perhaps he would have been forgiven. Oh, and Jesus did not send Judas out to "do the deed" as Burbot put it. Judas did it all on his own, or rather did it in collusion with Satan, in any case Jesus did not send him out to do it.
Well - it's a fact that had Judas not done what he did there would be no Christianity, and no 'salvation through blood'.
Exactly. So in reality, Judas was serving only God, or at worst serving all mankind, by doing his part in the salvation. It's weird too, because Pilate gets no bad rap but if anyone should be blamed it should be him, for having an innocent man executed
If indeed it is all true, then not only Judas Iscarriot, but Pilate, the guy who belted the spikes in, and satan were all working together so that JC's mission completed. So they were all christian heroes, because without the crucifixion, the question becomes "Jesus who??"
again: has anybody enjoyed the excellent nikos kazantzakis novel _the last temptation of christ_ (or even the fine movie version by marty scorcese)? hmm, or novels like: i, judas jesus of nazareth the gospel of judas iscariot behold the man gosh, i'm sure there's more out there, heh...
John 13 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society John 13 Jesus Washes His Disciples' Feet 1It was just before the Passover Feast. Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love.[a] 2The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus. 3Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him. 6He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?” 7Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.” 8“No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.” 9“Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!” 10Jesus answered, “A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” 11For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean. 12When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13“You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them. Jesus Predicts His Betrayal 18“I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill the scripture: ‘He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me.’[b] 19“I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. 20I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me.” 21After he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me.” 22His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. 23One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. 24Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.” 25Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?” 26Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. “What you are about to do, do quickly,” Jesus told him, 28but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night. Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial 31When he was gone, Jesus said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. 32If God is glorified in him,[c] God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once. 33“My children, I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come. 34“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” 36Simon Peter asked him, “Lord, where are you going?” Jesus replied, “Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later.” 37Peter asked, “Lord, why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.” 38Then Jesus answered, “Will you really lay down your life for me? I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times!
John 13:27 "And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly." i apologise for the KJV translation... also, Judas shows remorse, which is also evidence that he probobly never ment for Jesus to be put to deth....
Exactly. And don't leave out Longinus with his spear - an artefact that became much sought after so I've read, by the NAZI's.
But it wasn't Pilate's fault. He offered the people the chance to set Jesus free...and also, I think because of his wife's dream...he has no desire to execute Jesus... I think he says he finds no fault in him and so washes his hands clean of the situation...so how can you blame him? He didn't want to do it...I think it was the pressure from the pharasis...I could be wrong...
Well Pilate ultimately had the final say in the matter. The Pharisees hand no actual authority to pronounce sentence, all they could do was bring crimes to the attention of the Roman authorities. If Pilate was really such a good guy he would have released Jesus whether the Pharisees wanted him too or not.
Clever. Anyhow that statement is analagous to saying that the Nazi's were Heroes to the Jews because without them the modern nation of Israel would never have been established. You see the problem there? The Parhisees, Judas, Pilate, etc. . . were all pawns of the Devil who was the real head-honcho in the "crucify Jesus" movement. You see, Satan figured that if he got this Yashua fellow killed he would have the victory over God. What Satan didn't count on was the ressurection and thereby the salvation of all mankind, which totally screwed the Devil.
If you were taken before a judge, deemed innocent by him, then turned over to an angry murderous mob by this judge, wouldn't the judge be accountable? Pilate had the power to save jesus from crucifixion. He is guilty in the passive sense that he did nothing to prevent an innocent man from being murdered. You Christians want it both ways. You go on and on about how "god so loved the world that he sent his only son," and he was sent to be sacrificed. Then when the events occur to have the sacrifice carried out, all the people involved are "inspired by the Devil" and the whole plot become's "the devils murderous plan". Face it, without Pilate and Judas and everyone else, you wouldn't have your man-god to save you. Besides, to my knowledge, Satan is not mentioned in the Bible as a perpetrator (unless you base your theology on Mel Gibson movies). This was clearly the Plan of God all along, and Jesus knew it (fulfilling the scriptures and all that).
While I agree with what TrippinBTM has said, I wanted to add that Pilate had already dealt with several uprisings. Barabbas was an insurrectionist. So, he was left with releasing a known rebel or possibly starting a rebellion immediately. Personally, I understand why he did what he did, but that doesn't absolve him of guilt or responsibility for his actions. I cannot say what would have happened without Pilate and Judas. Neither can you. Okay, so without Pilate and Co. the crucifixion and events surrounding it would not have happened in the same way that they actually happened. So what? I do agree with the general idea of your post though. Satan may have wanted Christ crucified, maybe he didn't. One thing is certain though. It was men and women who put Him to death, who called for crucifixion, not Satan. And I agree here too. It was God's plan. It might have included Satan's scheming, but I think more than that, it included and accounted for human sin.
Another question arises is that did Pilate know Jesus was innocent...the Pharasies claimed he broke Temple laws, and then, if im not mistaken, a bunch of people testified fasly that Jesus did infact break them...
Back to the original question. There WERE two Judases. Or men named Judas,in Christ's life. Yashua's younger brother, Judas, was known as "Thomas" which meant "twin" it was beleieved he looked a lot like Christ himself. As he was younger, there already was a Judas in the bunch, he took up the name Thomas for good. For a while he was refered to as "Judas Thomas" but it got confusing.
Yea its called the shroud of Turin, and whats funny about that title is that there is an Egyptian Papyrus detailing all of the Phaoroes and their lineage, of natural royalty before the exodus of the wisdom, and hebrew people back to canaan. It was called the Turin Papyrus. Obviously a connection, between the spear that killed jesus, and the Pharoahs. Thats true, however you wanna say it, without the Nazis Israel would not be where it is today. This points to a grand conspiracy in my opinion. Alot of people don't think like that but whatever. Im not saying the holocaust didnt happen, im saying that the Jewish religion has been pirated in its most inner core by a cabal of power hungry madmen, feeding off this chosen people to suffer motif, and a debt to a vengefull god. God of the scripture and the Devil are the same thing. Their all different names for the Demiurge. Guided and disguised by lie. Allah of the muslims is the closest to the omniscent with no idols, or pictures or anything. But its still masked into worshipping the demiurge, and being a slave god this god.
