Moral basis

I would just like to say, Hikaru, that I really like the quote on your signature, very nice

ok, that's all

 

I'd ask you to prove it! =P

Seriously, though ... I do realize that, even just by living as I do, there are immoral things about my life. Heck, I was born and raised by my parents to be immoral. I know I'm not perfect, but whenever I discover something immoral about how I live, I try my best to do something to stop it, and I encourage morality in other people as well.

Immorality is like ignorance ... it's the starting human condition. I'm probably more immoral than I am moral, but the inconsistancies in my life are ones that I either haven't realized are inconsistancies (and I probably will realize many more with time; give me a break, I'm 18, in college, and only been vegan for about 9 months, I'm trying!), or they are inconsistancies that I do not have the power to change, even though I try.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know every way in which I'm immoral, and I probably never will, just like a psychologist will almost certainly never know exactly why people behave as they do. But, just as a psychologist tries to identify the fundamental parts of the human psyche, so do I try to identify the fundamental parts of my life that are immoral, and try to correct them.

A fruitarian extends the same rights to plants as they do to animals. Now, I haven't thought too deeply about this, but ... I don't think that it's immoral to not give plants the same rights as animals, because of various reasons like plants are not self-aware, they can't "feel" anything, they have no consciousness (defined as awareness of anything). I see them pretty much as just functions of the universe that are just there, and they grow. Kind of like bacteria, but much more complex.

Thanks! =)

 

(quote)
I still disagree on the point of convenience (at least in my case and in the cases of several vegans whom I know), because I have yet to come across any issue that I don't act according to my morals on simply because it's too out of my way. There MAY (and probably are) be places where I'm immoral because I'm ignorant and haven't considered some issue, but for those that I've considered, I've never backed down because it was too inconvenient.
(end quote)

Don't take this the wrong way, my freind, but that is bollocks. Utter bollocks. You simply cannot claim that you behave absolutely morally at all times and in all situations. E.g. if you really wanted to cut down on deaths, you would like in a mountain retreat, growing your own food without killing pests, and buy no goods at all. I bet you buy all kinds of things, right? Shampoo for that pretty hair of yours? All kinds of supermarket foods? You think that buying these things is moral? What about taxes? You pay? Then you're helping kill HUMANS, not just animals. See what we mean about convenience now?

 

Did you even listen to what my posts said? I NEVER CLAIMED THAT! Don't put words in my mouth! I said that, when an inconsistancy in my life catches my attention, I do my absolute best job to fix it! I never said that I was moral at all times and in all situations, as a matter of fact, I said that because of being inexperienced in life (I'm 18 for crying out loud!), I'm probably more immoral than I am less moral. Here, LET ME QUOTE THAT FOR YOU:

How can you expect me to even listen to you when you aren't even reading my posts, and spitting out dribble that you claim I said! Please, if you are going to make an argument, make it at least somewhat intelligent!

Do you know how much money I have? About $90 total. Do you know how much money it costs to live in a mountain retreat? You have to buy the land, you have to purchase the house and pay it off, AND you have to pay taxes! I'm an 18 year old college student, and because of how immoral our society is, it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to live on a mountain retreat!

And, YES, I do plan to live on a self-sustained property where I farm my family's own food, where we grow it naturally and do not harm animals! This is what I plan to do when I get out of college and DO have the chance to go and do this!

Read above.

So in order to be "moral" I can't buy anything at all? Listen: I don't buy ANY products that have animal products, and I don't buy from ANY company that I know animal tests. You know what that means? No Kraft. No Nabisco. No Chips Ahoy or Oreos, the best I can do is pretzels!

I will now read off the ingredients, as they are listed on my shampoo:

Water, Calcium, Potassium, Magnesium, Ash of Dedecyl Solution (Foaming Agent), Cold Pressed Avocado, Almond, Olive & Coconut Oils, Vitamin E, Vegetable Gum.

YES, I DO SHOWER, YOU ARROGANT ... let me rephrase that. Yes, I am hygenic. No, my shoes aren't leather. yes, I have a life. My shampoo is made entirely of natural ingredients with the exception of vitamin E and the foaming agent that makes it shampoo to begin with! So don't you dare think that even for a second, I buy regular shampoos that animal test their products! If you do think that, you are wrong, and you can go f-ck yourself.

The last time I was at the supermarket, this is a (to the best of my knowledge) list of what I bought:

1 Bag of jasmine rice (which, with a rice cooker, has lasted me for over an entire college quarter), several bags of vegan potato chips, 4 boxes of vegan cereal including Rice Squares and Zen Equillibrium Cereal (you can find it in the HEALTH FOOD section of Wegmans, with a little "V" in the corner for VEGAN), Yaki Soba (a Japanese yaki noodle chow mein that does not contain animal products and is very tasty), 6 cans of corn, 6 cans of green beans, 2 large cans of goya beans, Bragg's Soy Sauce containing added amino acids for one's health, Wegman's ARTIFICIALLY FLAVOURED butter popcorn which contains NO NATURAL INGREDIENTS including any animal-derived products, EVEN EXCLUDING BUTTER, a box of green tea bags, several bags of vegan potato chips (not the barbeque flavoured ones or the salt and vinegar ones, those aren't vegan), a bag of pretzels.

That was the last time I was at the supermarket. Do you know when that was? ALMOST HALF A YEAR AGO! I can't believe you have the audacity to assume these things! Either you have the respect of an ant, or the intelligence of one.

Do you think I have a choice? Do you think there is ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD that I have the capability to go to, where I can NOT buy these products? I AM A POOR ASS COLLEGE STUDENT, I do not have the money to go out and buy a visa (and I don't mean the credit card!) and go to another country, and as previously stated, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE PERFECTLY VEGAN IN THIS SOCIETY, and I have NO way to go to another society! Do you know what that means? That means, AS HARD AS I TRY, there are SOME instances, LIKE THIS ONE, where because of people like you, I am incapable of creating a perfect living condition for my morals! But, I TRY!

No, actually, I don't pay taxes. And I don't plan on it. And if the FBI comes knocking, I'll seek refuge in Canada. The government can suck it for imposing this forced tax that doesn't even need to be around.

No, I don't, and you can sit on a stick and spin for all I care. You've incorrectly assumed a ton of things about me, that you have no idea about! LIKE I SAID, I ACT AS MORAL AS I POSSIBLY CAN! That does not mean I am moral IN EVERY SITUATION and AT EVERY GIVEN TIME. No human is that, and it certainly isn't me! But, I try, and that is more than anyone can say about you!

Now that you are done being a presumptive jackass and putting words in people's mouths, I await an apology for being such. You have NO clue how sick and tired I am of people like you, who make the DUMBEST assumptions ever! I am sick of hearing fake bullshit like "God said the animals are for us to use as we see fit" (when in the Bible it even says RESPECT all of God's creatures!), and similar stupid things that people assume out of utter ignorance!

And, do you like my attitude in this post? I bet not! But, it's all that I'm ever going to give you when you're such a jackass to assume things about me! Believe me, I don't want to sound like an asshole, but sometimes, the only way to deal with an asshole is to be one back; that whole "fight fire with fire" deal, you know.

I've given you the proper respect to have not insulted you anywhere in these posts. You're a butcher, right? Who, and I quote, happily kills animals with your own two hands? And yet, nowhere in any of my posts have I assumed a thing about you that you haven't said directly yourself. I haven't done anything but point out that you are rationalizing (coming up with excuses to make it seem like you're not at fault in any way)! I mean, I've given you all the respect I can, and you put me through this?

WELL FUCK OFF, I'M SICK OF HEARING IT! I only wish there was an emoticon capable of expressing exactly how sick of it I am!

 

wow. rational.

 

So are you, friend, so are you.

Edit: I notice you don't actually have anything to say for yourself ... if you do have something intelligent to say, speak now.