The false religion of a consuming society

Around 17% of the worlds population is using 70% procent of the worlds resources, this is the western society, the materialistic society. The title I used is refering to a deceiveful religion which today is gaining large numbers of adherents. This religion has its gods and its promoters, its rules and its organized just as many other religions. This is the religion which has fooled the people, duped our children and its the religion which is bombarding us with false propaganda, day in and day out. Its a religion which has existed a very long period of time , changing its faces and controlling and lying about its false dogmatic beliefs. I am speaking about the religion of you "only life once, do as you wish", Im speaking about the religion of sex, drugs and rock&roll. I am speaking about the religion of false hopes, the religion of deceiving advertisements. I am speaking about the coca cola motto, the face of the consumiting nations.

What does this religion teach, O you learned and unlearned people? It shows us a young man on a poster in a beautiful island. The man is appearently very rich and handsome, he is enjoying a drink and wearing an extremly expensive suit and some nice sunglasses. Next to the man we find this very attractive young lady in bikini(ofcourse...). She looks as she has been starving for the past 10 months and in her hand she has a can of soda and the text reads:
"Enjoy live, live when drinking brand XXX"

The scenario I painted up is not taken from a real poster but there are tons of such posters everywhere in the societies we live in. The greates techology store I know of here in Sweden has the motto: "The meaning of life".
Excuse me! The meaning of life is consuming! By this token, all rich people are happy right? Pardon me here people if I am admonishing your religion but this begs the question, why are so many rich people killing them selfs, why do they have to take drugs to sleep at night? I previously mentioned the fact that this religion believes in in gods which people worship, one of whom was the famous, beautiful and rich Marilyn Monroe and the worlds most famous singer Elvis Presley. But their existence contradicts the teachings of this religion, what ever happend to these and many other famous and unfamous people? She(Monroe) killed here self, and he died from the overuse of drugs!

As I am writing this, hundreds of teenage girls are/have putting/put their fingers inside their throat in order to vomit, why?
Because this makes you beautiful, does it really? Are we really what they tell us, just another ancestor with the monkeys[common ancestor] so all we are meant to do is to fix our animal tendecies or are we meant for something?

WAKE UP, PEOPLE! Consuming will not make you happy nor will it bring you anything as the words of my prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said: If the son of Adam were given a valley full of gold, he would love to have a second one; and if he were given the second one, he would love to have a third, for nothing fills the belly of Adam's son except dust(death, the grave).

I'm tired of most people today chasing wealth too such a degree that many people are willing to do what ever it takes to gain it, wether if they are muslim, christian, jewish or what ever we find people longing for money and more and more, never ever being pleased.

We have to have some kind of purpose, most things around you in that room you are sitting right now has somekind of purpose and at the same time you claim your meaningless? Life is something too beautiful and advanced (just one cell is more advanced than anything weve built!) to be denied. I say (and here's were we differ) that if there is a purpose it must be following some kind of criteria which is just between the people -thus our wealth are beauty and our power is worthless(this is not a jus criteria, using 70% of the worlds pop)- and I recognize this criteria as the words my prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said during the last stages of his life infront of thousands of followers coming from different tribes and nations:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.

Any Comments?

 

I very much agree with you, dearest cabdirazzaq, it is a great problem in this world...and as teenagers of this generation it seams as if it is our duty to try and fix this horible problem...but when you see it on such a large scale you can't imagine tackling it alone...or further more in small numbers...but I feel that the comment that you stated about "piety and good action" seams to be the answer. So, I figure...that if we, the youth of this troubled world, can find it within ourselves to, as the saying goes, "Perform random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty", then I think that we are on our way. Despite the religious ideals that separate us, you'd be surprised at how many of these former brainwashed students, at least in this part of the US, are starting to see the lies behind it all (not all...but many)...people I meet who I've known for years are starting to talk to me again and I am surprised, as I get to know them, how much they've changed and how many have joined the epic battle for peace....how so many are starting to look beyond their differences to see we are all humans in the end....and perhaps just all Spirit, children of God...

So, although things seam kind of meaningless, we can still change them...as long as we work with every fibre of our being to make the change NOW. Because we are in charge tomorrow and if we can get our generation out of the ceaseless pool of brainwashing and lies that is bussiness and government, and technology (although it has good parts its also dangerous)...than we can start to make the difference that no one ever had...

That's my opinion...sorry its a little long and deshevaled (sp?)...its a topic I'm passionate about but I don't seem to have all my thoughts organized.

 

We seem to agree on a couple of points and Im happy about that while we are disagreeing in others, you recognize the problem but we appearently believe in different way to accomplish it. I may sound odd in the ears of others (liberal) people when I say I believe in one way, since many people here believe and teach the message of: "Find your own way", "There are many ways to enlightment" but I cannot agree to this at all. Why? Think of it like this, one may feel enlightened by raping people and burning down houses, is he enlightened by this?

No, ofcourse not... Even if one said: "Find your own way but do not hurt people" hurting could mean something different in his eyes than in yours, who would thus reconzile between bad and good and this is part of why I believe there is only one way. If God does exist -which every advanced system in the universe, from the extreme capacity of the DNA to the perfect order of the planets witness- then is it not clear that He would show us one way which would never change through out the ages? This is what I believe in and here is where we greatly differ. I prostate my self as did all the prophets(peace be upon them all) to the Lord of the world without ascribing any partners to him. I believe in the religion of "To submit totally to God", and this is the meaning of the word islam.

I know that many people are shaking their heads and denying my belief in one way. But then again, how could submitting to Gods orders be bad? This would ofcourse depend on what I define this order as, right?
I would catagorize these orders in 6 aspects (a Quran verse does this acually). Three which we are ordered to do, and 3 which we are ordered to stay away from. And I do not think anyone here would deny either one of these statements;

Verily, Allah orders justice (first order) and kindness(2), and giving (help) to the relatives(3), and He forbids immoral sins(4), and evil(5) and tyranny(6). He admonishes you, so that perhaps you may take heed.[Quran 16.90]

No, it wasn't long at all(SvgGrdnBeauty), I would be glad to hear from more of you acually.

 

Dearest cabdirazzaq,

I see exactly what you are saying about different view points and I agree...it is hard to generalize because of the different ways that people see things contributing to their experiences both in this life and perhaps even previous lives...

And I agree with you that submitting to God would be the most idealistic solution no matter what religion or form of spirituality you follow...for it is the root teaching of almost every religion...for with that simple factor all of the things you talk about in the verse you quoted from the Quaran would come...but unfortunetely the thing we were previously talking about the influence of Maya (the illusory force of the universe) has such an effect and hold on humanity and also it is paired with the concept of free will...that we have the free will to choose to go back to God or not...and that most people will never take that chance...and I suppose that puts us where we are right now.

Of course I would love to see a spiritually united world, but I think it is only as good as the desire of more than just us...and I think it goes back also to what I was saying before...about how we need to realize that we are all one people...it seams that is the root of most of our troubles...that we are so caught up in the outside part...that we forget the inner...and it makes me think of this:

-“Let us pray in our hearts for a League of Souls and a United World. Though we may seem divided by race, creed, color, class, and political prejudices, still, as children of the one God we are able in our souls to feel brotherhood and world unity. May we work for the creation of a United World in which every nation will be a useful part, guided by God through man’s enlightened conscience. In our hearts we can all learn to be free from hate and selfishness. Let us pray for harmony among the nations, that they march hand in hand through the gate of a fair new civilization." —Paramahansa Yogananda

-“Never give up
No matter what is going on
Never give up
Develop the heart
Too much energy in your country is spent
Developing the mind instead of the heart.
Be compassionate not just to your friends but to everyone
Be compassionate.
Work for peace in your heart and in the world.
Work for peace and I say again
Never give up.
No matter what is happening,
No matter what is going on around you,
Never give up.” -His Holiness the Dalai Lama
---

Hope to here from you again.
*Peace and Love*
Nicole

 

Don't confuse sex, drugs, and rock & roll with rampant material consumerism. They have nothing to do with each other save that the marketing companies have attempted to harness sex, drugs, and rock & roll to further their own agendas.

Peace, Happiness, and Love.
Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll.
Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness.
Freedom.

 

Agreed. Most people are deluded from this, this (mainly) because of tv and the internet though.

...Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts [Quran 22.46]

Agreed once again, we are so caught inside the materialistic world that we forget our selves. These words of yours makes me remember a very famous (for the muslims) verse about the issue of materialistic wantings:

Beautified for men is the love of things they covet; women, children, Qanatir Al-Muqantarah of gold and silver, branded beautiful horses (Musawwamah), cattle and fertile land. This is the pleasure of the present world's life; but Allah has the excellent return with Him.

Interesting quote and I can't find a single one of these words which I can disagree with, Alas... How easy it would of been if this was the situation of the people

 

For a change I agree with a Muslim!

 

This thread is quite interesting. I must agree with much cabdirazzaq's assessment of the rampant culture of consumerism which is plaguing the West (and spreading to the rest of the world like a pandemic disease). As I live in the West, I see it every day and it disgusts me. I've considered leaving many times, as the '60's gurus suggested "tune in, turn on, and drop out," but always I have come to the conclusion that leaving the system will not bring about change. Change must be brought about from within, just as our spiritual change happens from within.

I can't agree with your assessment of how to bring about that change. I can't agree that there is only one Truth. I see the world from a multiplicity of viewpoints and I know of several Truths (or paths to Truth). Perhaps you don't see them. Perhaps you can't, or perhaps you simply refuse to admit to their existence, but it is no matter. I believe the purpose of life to be more than simply to die with your soul in the proper place so that you will be rewarded. I am too busy living this life rightly to concern myself with the disposition of my soul in the next. We live in a glorious and wonderful universe. We see miracles and beauty of such magnitude it's overwhelming every day (if we care to look for these things, and I do). My purpose in this world is to experience what it has to offer. This isn't a matter of greed or gluttony. I have little care for possessions or for excesses which deny others. I simply believe that this universe is far too great a wonder to be ignored. Art, music, drugs, ecstatic religious experiences, anything which realigns my perceptions of the universe so that I may experience it in a new way is to be cherished. Such experiences bring wisdom. My insistence on viewing the world from as many perspectives as possible helps me to understand the perspectives of others. Understanding breeds forgiveness. In fact, many I know claim they can forgive the deeds or misdeeds of others simply because their god tells them to do so, but that is rarely the case. When people can forgive each other it is because they understand each others perspectives. Not that your deity, cabdirazzaq, is interested in forgiveness. I am, though.

There is no such thing as a single Truth which works for all people. This is a fact, and I will explain why: Each person enters this world in a unique time and place, with a unique genetic structure (with the possible exception for that last of identical siblings - or clones). Each person learns about the universe through his/her experiences in it. Each experience is viewed through the lens of all of the previous experiences and that experience than re-forges the lens into a new paradigm. As a result, no two beings can ever experience the same event the same way. Each will come away from that event having gained something different owing to their unique perspective. This is a fact of life. No two people can have the exact same spiritual worldview because each learns their spiritual insights through their own unique lens. You may think that you believe the exact same way that your spiritual brethren do, but you are mistaken. There are subtle differences. Certain points of doctrine which are important to you may only gain lip service from your brother, and vice-versa. Your experience of the divine is colored by who you are as an individual. If there were truly only one path, then only one person could reach salvation. No one else can follow that same path because the journey begins at birth. My experience of the divine is different from yours, but it is no less valid. Had you lived my life, you would have come to the same conclusion.

There is a possibility for a worldwide common morality, however. It is a secular morality, which may bother you, but it is a powerful one that allows for all beings to be free and to have the opportunity for real happiness in life. It's not bound by ritual or dogma, but it's rightness is irrefutable. It is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and if it were a universally adopted code, each of us could believe as our lives have taught us without fear of retribution from others who feared difference.

Here is a link to the statement, should you care to read it: http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm

What I'm telling you, ultimately, is this: one doesn't need to follow a particular religion or believe in a particular philosophy in order to live a moral life. Morality can and does exist independently of your deities. Most human beings can tell the difference between right and wrong without following your particular deity. I can, so can my friends and family. We are good people who not only go out of our way to avoid harming others, but who go out of our way to help where we can.

I refuse to believe that a deity who would punish those who live good lives, help others, and do no harm simply because those beings don't take the time to observe a series of rituals or follow a dogmatic set of mores and folkways is a truly moral deity. How can one who would wish harm upon those who do their best to be good people and love one another be truly moral? Why would anyone worship such a god?

 

What if these contradicts each other? For instance there are some people who refer to themselves as christian buddhists, I must say that I am alittle suprised by this since the two faiths are contradicting each other. Its like saying; "I am allergic to chocolate and it can kill me but I love to eat it once a day" Only one of these statements could apply.

So by this way of reasoning, rave parties which some young people participate in is to be cherished. "Lets not mind" all the wanton display and fornication, all the drugs which kill these people and the fact that many are going against their parents wishes when they go there. This does not bring wisdom, but rather destruction of the soul.

It is possible to understand the perspective of others without having the need to view it from different perspectives.

Would you be kind enough to explain to me what you mean by this?

Excuse me, but who made this a fact? Once again, viewing the world from one perspective will unite people which cannot be achieved through your perspective. This reminds me of three companions of the prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) named Salman, Bilal and Suhaib. Salman was a persian and Suhaib from the Romans while Bilal was an african, the question stands. What made these three people consider themselves to be brothers? Was it their different views of the world, if that was the case. Bilal would still have been an oppressed slave while the other two would of hated each other since they came from two nations who were at war with each other, but no, it was faith that united them.

I would never compell my views on anyone and I am forbidden from forcing people to change their belief with force by my religion but I do still consider a one way view the only way to unite people.

Yes, people are different and they view many aspects of life in a different matter but I sill believe the roots should be the same, even though the color the flower shows will be different from plant to plant, they should all have the same root. I am sure that you would accept this to a certain degree, for instance you would like everybody living here on earth to stop killing innocently(right?), by saying this you are imposing an one view statement. I mean, what if somebody feels that he or she has reached the conclusion that killing people, especially others from different backrounds is a good thing to do, what would you then do? Who or what decides our Criterion, I would say God you would have to say: Each individual but once again, we don't all think of human standars like you do.

What are you doing different from me when I say that I believe the moral codes would have to come from God while you would rather refer to the U.N? It's a matter of "we know a certain goal, its just how to get there" and the way to get there cannot come from different sources, if it does, you just contradicted your self by imposing a wordwide common morality. Think about that.

No they cannot, your overestimating the nature of the humans. We are a stupid people and cannot understand the difference between good and bad without the help of our Creator, perhaps we can understand a couple of things but we cant see the whole picture. Some people think its correct to oppress a certain people because of their orgin(ex "the untouchable") and they are positive that they are correct in this, other people are sure that they are doing good by raping women and others are sure that they are doing nothing wrong when drinking or smoking (just a few examples). People are generally stupid, we need someone to extract us out from our stupidity, I refer to a one way structure. During the early days of islam, the muslims were serverly oppressed in mecca until the prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) told some of his companions to seek shelter with a just christian king, the king of Abyssinia(a great area of northern africa). When they arrived at the council of the king, he asked them about this religion of theirs. One of the companions answered in very simple terms:
"We were some ignorant idol worshipers. We used to eat carrion flesh, commit abominable acts, sever the ties of kinship and violate the rights of neighbourhood. The weak were crushed by the strong.

We remained on that case until Allah sent us a Messenger whose lineage is known to us. He is famous for his truthfulness, honesty, and honour. He calls us to worship Allah alone and give up idol worshipping. He exhorts us to be truthful in speech, deliver the trusts, maintain the ties of kinship, observe the rights of neighbourhood, abstain from abominable acts and to bury the hatchet to spare our lives.

He forbids us to do misdeeds, false testimony, devouring the property of orphans and slandering chaste women. He ordered us to worship Allah and not to associate anything with Him in worship, to establish Prayer, pay Zakah and fast in Ramadan. We believed in him, followed his teachings and applied them in practical life.

The attitude of our people towards us was aggressive. They tortured us to force us to abandon our religion and return us to idol worship. When the matter reached a climax, we migrated to your land and preferred to be in your shelter, hoping that no one can direct harm to us."

My reason of posting this little story was in order to determine something. If we were to accept different views, nothing would be against them continuing in their actions, they acually thought that their was nothing wrong with burying their daughters alive!

Do good to others while denying the one who got you there in the first place, how does that work out? Think of a man who kills his parents and then take good care of dogs, would we praise him for the good actions towards the dogs or admonish him for killing his parents?

You are a smart man, much more so than I but your arguments cannot stand, it is more logical to think that the Creator would send one way rather than million other ways which contradict each other. If we acknowledge creation then there is a Creator. If there is a Creator He would have to send some kind of guidance to us, trying to find this guidance by own experiences is like trying to fly an airplane without any previous lectures, it wont end well.

 

Well. uhhhm..... acually I said that its a matter of piety and good actions, isnt that against your beliefs? (not the good actions part but Ive heard many christians call it old rags and that all we really need to do is to acknowledge Christ as our Saviour)

 

I am one who agrees that we must all find our own way. I also agree this is achieved through submission to God. The question is, what is god, and how do you do it. That is where each must search themselves and find out for themselves. You may have found your way through the Koran, others through the Bible, and some through the Torah. These are all good, if done with right intentions. But I do disagree that there is only one way of finding god. God is too great to be so limited. No I'm not saying everything goes, but there is a vast multitude of paths to god, one for every person, and more.

But anyways, I do agree that our current state of affairs is not so good for us or the world. This compulsive consumerism is like a religion of selfishness, worship of the ego. Which is exactly the opposite of the point of religions.

If you were to say one or the other (god or man) I'd say you're both wrong. Who decides? God AND man. You're thinking about this so intellectually, trying to reach a common ground through words and ideas, which will always fail because these are symbols and people take different things from them (as know1nozme said, our personal experiences color our perspective). What we need is something solid. Ideas about God will fail. Mystics of every religion all around the world and all through time tell us of a common ground of being (you'd call it god). Talking about this ground won't work, we need to meditate/pray, get quiet and focus in on it, actually contact it (not just think about it). Call it communing with God. This is why a Christian Buddhist is not a contradiction at all, by the way. They're just a christian who seeks a more personal relationship with God than the usual one sided "I talk god listens" of prayer.

This is the very problem with our materialist world, by the way. The way to unite is to slow down, sit quietly and have time for spiritual reflection, but our world is always "progressing" towards having more "stuff", moving faster and faster with distractions and interruptions everywhere, advertizements always saying "buy this, or buy that" all the while wishing you don't remember this isn't an authentic way to live. In all this distraction, it's hard for people to even remember than material wealth isn't the goal, it's just a support along the way. If they can't even remember that, how can they begin to find god or unite the world in peace? They may give lip service to religion, but their hearts, as your quote said, are in reality blind.

 

What you wrote is disrespectful, stereotypical, uninformed... And distorted. I suggest you learn more about:
-the rock'n'roll attitude
-The fact developped countries culture doesn't revolve around Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley. They're legends, some people might consider them Gods but this don't mean everyone think the same.
-"only life once, do as you wish" we do live once. At least life as we know it. There wasn't a previous version of Antimatter235 and I've never witnessed anything living several times, even cats.
-etc, etc.

EVEN IF YOU WERE CORRECT. What is the solution ? Religion (the real thing)? Mankind wasn't happier when religion ruled it all.
Or are you saying that life would be better for people who move in theocratic countries ?

You don't deserve to live in a great country such as Sweden. Visit the countries that show no signs of the faults you're critisizing then tell us how great it was and how you want to stay there.

 

For you, given your own perspective, this might seem to be the case, but to those who have found their path in the splicing of other religious belief systems, it works just fine. You cannot see it because either you refuse to, or you simply aren't experientially equipped to concieve of such a thing.

What's wrong with fornication? Oh, sure, there are risks of diease and unwanted pregnency, but we risk disease every time we persist in leaving the safety of our homes to interact with others. Once upon a time, not so long ago, a person stood more chance of getting sick by visiting a hospital than by having sex, but when hospitals began taking more precautions to prevent the spread of disease, this became a rare occurrance. The same could be said for fornication and drug use. If the right precautions are taken, such terrible consequences can be avoided. Is it now considered unwise or destructive to go to the hospital? Why should it be so for these other things?

How? Please explain this.

A deity who orders the death of people who "spread mischief in the land" - a phrase which includes a number of acts which are victimless (i.e. cause no real harm - only percieved harm by those whose god thinks people should behave otherwise for some arbitrary reason) cannot be said to be a particularly forgiving deity.

For all people in the world to view the world through one perspective, there would need to be only one person in the world.

Actually, if you are Muslim, then you are commanded to kill unbelievers, rather than try to convert them, are you not?

Qur'an 9:29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.

Qur'an 9:5Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

I see no dictate to preach to the unbelievers, true, but is it better to simply kill them unless they convert of their own free will? Isn't this the very definition of "conversion by the sword?"

Quran 9:73 Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

And just what is this implying?

Secular humanist morality protects the rights of individuals yet lets them believe whatever religion they wish. It is the closest to allowing for a multiplicity of worldviews, yet still maintaining freedom for all. If you believe that everyone should have the same root, then why not the secular humanist root? It, at the very least, allows for the greatest number of branches and the widest variety of color and that makes it preferable to any religious alternative I've come across.

I'd stop them from killing. There are huge factions of people who claim to have the same belief system you do, yet have come to this very conclusion (i.e. kill the infidels!)... what will YOU do?

And isn't that a shame. It seems pretty clear that my humanist standards are more conducive to peace, freedom, and the gereral well-being of ALL PEOPLE than the standards of your god.

My moral code DID come from multiple sources. It was devised by a large group of people from many nationalities and many belief systems. It allows for the greatest freedom without impinging on the freedom of others. As the basis for a worldwide morality, nearly any other moral code can fit within its parameters so long as it isn't forced on anyone else. It allows each person to follow their own moral compass within reason - that is, they may do as their god(s) command, but may not force those commands on anyone else nor make others suffer for them. Can you say the same of yours?

I believe that you are underestimating the nature of humans. Perhaps we can't see the whole picture, but looking at the world through the rigid lens of a book written hundreds of years ago limits our view more thanit expands it.

If his parents were holding a gun to his head, telling him that he must think as they tell him to or they will kill him (as your deity does), then I'd say his actions were self-defense.

Perhaps what you are saying here is true, but what makes you so certain that the book you are using for guidance is the message intended by the creator? Wouldn't we be better off simply looking at the way we can see the universe actually works and take our cues from that? If there is a creator, then the entire universe is a message. Why do you look to a book, written by men, when the world is telling you all you need to know? As for learning by experience, history is a great teacher, and what is history but the collective experience of the world?

 

Dearest TrippinBTM,

I very much agree with you...there are many branches to the river but they all lead to the ocean. I think that it all depends on whatever works for you...and that sometimes you have to combine and try all different outlooks on said subject until you find that.

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

 

cabdirazzaq, WOW! What a wonderful and detailed answer! Thank you for taking the time to put all of this together for me. I truly admire your diligence and the details which show me the great attention you have paid to my own post. I am honored by your response and I will try to be brief (which is a very hard thing for me) in my replies.

This is true, but those who splice religious beliefs into a unified whole do so in a series of pragmatic spiritual choices (separating the wheat from the chaff of each belief system they come into contact with). Rarely will you find these people belonging to a community of strong adherents to any of the religions they have adopted ideas from.

This appears to be a matter of accepting responsibility, then. We appear to disagree (and I won't force this issue) about our ability to judge right from wrong concerning individual actions. You believe (I think) that it is better to stay away from all questionable actions, while I believe each action may be examined individually and I accept the responsibility for the consequences, should I make an error.

I wish this were the case, but no. "Fasaad fi al-ardh" is the phrase which I translated as "spreading mischief." I hope I'm not incorrect in this. The term seems to include homosexual behavior in its definition. I know many homosexuals, male and female, and I find no wrongdoing in their lifestyle - they do no harm (and in fact, most that I know do a great deal of good for their communities), yet using this phrase, you law would have them put to death. I cannot accept that.

That is exactly correct. Too often have I heard people using scriptural quotes to justify killing in the name of their god. There has been far too much blood shed this way - perhaps more have died "in the name of god," be that god called "Allah," or "YHVH" or "the father," than for any other human cause. There seems to be general agreement that this is the same god. I hear many people defend their religion against this charge, saying "those people are not 'real' [Christians, or Muslims, or Jews]. That doesn't change the fact that the killing is done "in gods name."

Most likely there isn't one. Yet people continue to practice this conversion by force, to this day. Your own religion merely requires that followers of other faiths pay a "tax" to practice their religion (which in less tolerant lands, would then reveal these people to be targeted for discriminatory treatment) - I find that to be immoral as well.

I appreciate the work that you have put into this. Clearly there are devout people of every faith who work hard to do good, to treat one another with respect, and to avoid doing harm to others. The passages you quote are echoed in the sacred texts of many other religions, yet the killing goes on.

What I find most interesting is that none of these texts makes slavery a sin... We had to figure that out for ourselves, didn't we? The Judeo-Christian-Muslim god doesn't seem to have a problem with it, but it is clearly immoral. Another interesting note is that there seems to be no responsibility on the part of those good and devout followers of the peaceful and just path of your religions to keep others from corrupting the sacred texts and using them as an excuse to kill others. You shake your heads and say it's wrong, but you do nothing to stop those who are using YOUR OWN RELIGION as a weapon.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims all do this. Each points at the other and blames them for the violence, but no one stops their own. Where are the loud voices protesting this twisting of your belief systems from the inside? You have a much better chance to institute change from within your religion than to force it on another from outside.

Until such time as each religion can say "We are about loving one another, respecting each other, and promoting peace" without the news showing me that this simply isn't true, I cannot believe such a deity is truely good. How else can I see it? For every hopeful, loving and peaceful quote you show me, someone else is using a different quote from the same book to justify their acts of discrimination and murder.

That still wasn't very brief, was it? I tried.