Attaching, what about non-attachment?

Hi there everyone. This is kinda a post about what I read about attachment parenting. What are the children like as they grow older?

Are they clingy children? Do they overly fear being without them and always want them near? (the parents, thats is...) This is something I would fear happening with the child. I want to give the child as much space and room to grow, on their own, without my interfearing.

It is my firm belief that there are many things we, as human beings, are born just KNOWING and then we are slowly and yet, harshly untaught everything we 'know' through schooling, societal programming, conditioning and the like. It is this reason I would want to allow the child, the fellow human being their right to learn at their own speed, what they need to learn and how and the ways in which they need to learn it, which out forcing, without demanding but being strong and nurturing at the same time. And, being the best person I can be towards other humans as well, and treating myself with honor and love.

And too, I would definately have an alternate way of housing the child. I strive for compassion, forgiveness and gentleness, harmless in my everyday life and incorporate love for my human beings, the animal kingdoms, and the Mother Earth. I have seen the way children are treated like pets, or slaves or something 'less than', As if every parent were the dictator....kinda the way Earth and our fellow brothers and sisters, the animals kingdoms are treated by various groups of destructive and hatefull humans....

That is not 'love', it is only the 'rememberance' of what love used to be and how is used to be expressed between humans and animals and the planet.

Too bad my partner doesn't share the share convictions as I do, and as firmly as I. I imagine if I do decide to sleep with the child, he would reject it because he is overly fearful and majorly paranoid, to a point it could be clinically diagnoised.

Wish me luck.

Namaste
Francine

 

Usually not. Attachment parents usually are pretty in tune with their children, and know when they need some freedom, space and independence (things that no child under one year of age needs, of course.) Some kids are clingy, by thier makeup, but children who are APed tend to TRUST, and with trust, these children are LESS afraid about the world.

Same as above. Some children are more fearful than others, but it has nothing to do with AP. When a child has TRUST they are usually less fearful, as their parents supplied them with love and honor, and that builds trust in every way.

I like your view of parenting. Maybe have your Partner read some things about AP, and Compassionate Parenting (there are links and books all over this forum) and hope for the best. I couldn't have children with someone who didn't respect children as humans, personally. But people can and do change.

 

Oh boy. Here we go.

 

Thanks for the answers! You answered them very concisely

He knows children very well, I think he knows the way he was not treated as a child and would know how to act and treat them, but then again, who knows. As for people can change, I doubt he can. As for people do change, I know I have very much within my own lifetime, be it as short as it is, I change every day as I process more and integrate more of myself to become a more complete and fully intune, balanced ME.

He has said the things that he is going to change, those things have not changed. Everytime a chance comes up for which he could change, he doesn't. Then again, haha, now that a child is on the way, perhaps he will 'grow up', just alittle. I'm not holding my breath though.

You could say that this is a relationship between a 'hippie' and a businessman, a 'suit', one who thrives off the system and one who does not and wishes to break free of it so there are tensions in many areas but, everyone has a lesson to learn. I thought I would have a child with someone, it wouldn't be with someone like him but then again, here I am coupled with dreading the future and being estatic that I have found someone I would have a child with and enjoy more then the average joe off the street. Not very much, but it is something.

You can't change someone else but you can change yourself. And maybe by changing yourself, you affect those around you. So that is my only creed right now and hoping, striving for the best I can get.

Maybe I will find some books about 'compassionate parenting' I like in which to suggest for him to read. Thanks for the suggestions!

Namaste
Francine

 

Some good AP books.


Some good AP books to look at. (I advise people keep an open mind, forget the outdated concepts of "spoiling" and "getting away" from the baby and focus ON the baby.)

Attatchment Parenting by Katie Allison Granju (best primer for learning AP.)

The Baby Book William and Martha Sears (husband and wife, doctor and nurse tream and parents to eight breastfed children, including the adopted baby. They KNOW babies more than anyone else on the parenting book market.)

Anything else from William and Martha Sears. They have written over a dozen parenting books.

The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding THE book about breastfeeding. And although AP can occur when breastfeeding is impossible (a pretty rare thing for breastfeeding to be actually impossible) the things that make AP work also make breastfeeding work. WABF uses science and personal accounts of how to make a good breast feeding family work. Some people are "offended" by this book, as feeling it is "pushy" it isn't.

The Happiest Baby on the Block (I can't remember the author at the moment.) Written by a pediatrician who saw too many cases of failed breastfeeding, failed attachment and fussy babies, he worked on what mothers who were successful DID. Good stuff.

Stuff to STAYAWAY FROM (horrible parenting books)
On Becoming Babywise Gary Ezzo Third Reich Style parenting. Ezzo has NO qualifications in parenting. His main issue is that babies "manipulate" parents, and that God doesn't want to you do that. (this book is adapted from the "Christian" book "Preparation for Parenthood.) He advises ignoring baby's crying, scheduling feedings at LONG intervals, and not "spoiling" your child as it isn't "fair" to your husband if your attention is on the baby too much. He advises hitting children as young as 6 months. Need I say more? Babies have died, and MANY have dehydrated and had to be treated for Failure to Thrive due to his "teachings." HORRIBLE things, none of it based on ANYTHING we know about infant nutrition, development or learning.

The Baby Whisperer Tracey Hogg This womyn abandoned her own children in England to come to the USA and be a nanny for rich Hollywood people. She has no training in infant care, and is also too concerned with "spoiling." She claims to have a "system" to make caring for babies "EASY." NO SUCH THING EXSISTS. If you do babies right, it isn't EASY.

Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems Ferber This man, also, is overly concerned with parents "getting enough sleep" and is obsessed with "baby training." He has yet an other "system" to make parenting easy. Bullocks. It is basically a timed approach to letting a baby cry until they are exhausted and evetually learn that NO ONE cares about them. ALL these authors have this concept in mind.

What to Expect books. Yuck, Outdated Freudian garbage. WHY these books are so popular is a mystery to me. The womyn who wrote them, again, have NO training or experince in Infant Development or Lactation. One was a Labor and Delivery Nurse, but that has nothing to do with raising babies. Read Sears if you want GOOD pregnancy and baby care books.

 

Thanks again, you are so informative! I understand perfectly reaching the point of focusing on the child, completely. I also understand the damage of getting away and both spoiling.

I'll look them up and see what I think. I would also like to look into some wiccan books about childraising because that is the only 'religion' that somewhat mirrors my own way of living (mostly being intune with Nature and the elements, and having sacred space, the "altar") How to incorporate nature in various ways into the childs life is something I would find much joy and fulfillment in, to share the love of Earth and animals with another.

Thanks again for starting me off!

Namaste
Francine

 

i wish i had something to add, but Maggie covered it

I have kids that aren't clingy at all. Ryvre never cared (still doesn't) if i left him with a family member, or at church or something. He's super-independent, and always has been. Willow (almost 2) is a little different; she'll sometimes fuss a bit when i run to the store or something and leave her with Daddy, but there have been several times i fogot my car keys, ran back to the house, and realized when i got to the door that she not only stopped crying, but didn't start again when i left the second time, haha.

 

A funny story about "clingy" children. I was leading a LLL meeting last year. My dd Sage was about 4 and still nursing a bit. She was at the meeting. One of my friends was coming to take her to a school picnic soon. (I went as soon as my meeting was over.) One of the mothers was upset that nursing her child "too long" would make the child "clingy" and she wouldn't "be able to do anything" and the child would never want to leave her.

A few minutes later my friend walked in and Sage RAN out the door with her, without even saying Good Bye! I yelled "Bye, baby." after her. And then we all laughed about the concern about long term breastfed kids and "overattachment." It was a great illustration of the Trust Mechanisms at work.

 

wow WHorseTurtle-you just described everything that I believe when it comes to raising kids. I just had no idea what it was "called," lol. This helped!
My only fear, (and maybe this is just paranoia cuz I'm about to have a baby) is that what if the kids is crying all the time and eventually learns that if he/she continues to do so, they can get anything they want? Can this type of parenting turn it's back on you?
I mean, we've all seen this situation before...I'm just afraid of that happening...to the point where the kid won't care what I have to say and just cries, for example, to get his/her way.
I'm definately going to check out some of those books; they probably explain how to avoid things like that......not to mention answer everything else I'm worried about. I think I'm just more "afraid" than anything. I just want to be a good mom and raise a happy child.
lol, and I know what maggie means about the "what to expect" books. I got so fed up with them I just shut it half way through and tossed it. The "what to expect when you're expecting" book makes it sound like you should lock yourself in a room until your baby is born and eat soley what the books says, or else you're baby will be unhealthy and have a low birth weight. But then you have to make a fortune to be able to afford the foods she's suggesting. I've just been eating healthy and have been taking my vitamins, and everything is perfect so far.

 

This only happens if the child does not have a strong foundation of TRUST for the parent. A well grounded, well Attached child learns to TRUST that if mama has to go away for a short period of time, she can be TRUSTED to return. Because she took the time to lay down the trust in the beginning. Too many and too long separations in early infancy can cause this foundation of trust to not develop. Also kids act like you described when the parenst are INCONSISTANT about the trust. One of the examples I can give is a child who sometimes gets her cries answered, and other times is left to Cry It Out. The child learns that NO ONE can be trusted to answer her needs, and thus becomes "clingy" to make sure the care giver can't get away to betray her again. Lay down the trust and be consistant about it (meaning ALL cries must be answered, no Ferber, 'sleep traning" or shit like that, these destroy trust) and pathological clingyness will not happen.

Because if your baby trusts you, she doesn't have to "cling." (Of course knowing that in many times of development children are naturally NOT grounded and clinging will occur, but this is what children do. Normal kids cling from time to time, poorly attached children either have NO attachment to their mothers (Oh I can leave him with anyone, and he doesn't even care.) or display this pathological clinging you were describing.

Healthy Attachment will not result in an unbalanced child. In fact ONLY healthy attachment and bonding can cause a balanced child.

 

Ahhhhh, this all becoming clearer now AND you used one of my most favorite words of all time, GROUNDING, or, being GROUNDED!!!!

You have helped emmensely. And...teeny tiny, I have heard of your story before, and, I actually responded to one of your posts. The man you are having the child with (is he back in your life???) sorta reminds me of my own situation.....

Blessings to you
Namaste
Francine

 

the man never went anywhere, lol. he's been beside me all along.
how so are our situations alike? (if you mentioned this already, i'm sorry, my memory is not always at it's full potential, lol). pm me if you like.

 

Maggie already went over this, but I sort of wanted to reinforce as a pre-school teacher who has taken child development, that a child who is well attached is proven to be more willing to explore, because they know they have a safe base to come back to, a base that will be there. They've also proven that children with strong attachment have better overall health, better immune systems even, so something to consider there.

Also, just because Maggie mentioned a woman who wrote a book to avoid that's concerned about "spoiling" children, this is an archaic belief system that drives me nuts. Children aren't born with some little mechanism that says "hey, if I cry they do what I want", if a baby cries, they need something, so please don't think that by picking up your child when they cry that you're spoiling them, all you're doing is showing that can trust you to take care of thier needs. The first stages of life is when a child builds the basis of trust that they will use for the rest of thier life. I'm sure that none of you mamas would even think about ignoring your child crying, but that's something I feel really strongly about and wanted to bring up.


Ok, back to attachment, one of the women I teach with has a child who's 2 1/2 and attends our pre-school, and I'm one of his teachers. Now, granted he knows his mom is at school when he is, but she's set up very firm boundries, and he can't just run to her whenever. I bring it up because she does attachment parenting, and I gotta say, unless her son is having a really bad day or is sick, he's not clingy at all. In fact, he'll say hi to her, but if he's playing and she's around, he keeps doing what he was doing.

Hope this helps :0)

 

Let me say this about attachment parenting.

My sisters is far from a perfect Mama but she tries her best. She is an AP and her 3 yo is so independent and explores and does not throws fits or cry any more then any other kid.

here is an example.
I work at the food coop, today my sister came in and so did budda, and when he can in she said go gie Uncle J a hug. He said I don't wanna , so he picked up his asket and shopped. when he camed to where I was helping a custmor he came oer and asked me to pick him up and he whispered in my Ear I loe you do you want a kiss? I said I sure do dude. He told me after I got my kiss the he loed me then tossed his little arms around me to gie me a hug. He wanted a hug when he came in but needed the intmancy of not haing mama there telling him he should do it.

 

Excellent points, Paix! Many attachment parents are very good about setting boundries. I couldn't raise 4 kids without them. Kids who are firmly attached and trust their parents are more happy to accept boundries, too. (well most of the time. try a 3 year old, they always are testing boundries, but that is to be expected developementally from children this age. I think this is a preweaning strategy. (if the child isn't already weaned, if he is, then it is a pre"dry"weaning strategy, if that makes any sense. The child is learning about separation between himself and his mama, and he fights it and embraces it at the same time. This is one of the reasons 3 year olds are so "difficult.")

Thank you for the illustration, Weep.

 

I'm just wondering, what kinda of "boundries" are you meaning?
Boundries to me, when I was growing up, we're always, "you're going to be grounded if you do this, and that...."
And how to you go about explaining these to you child so that they understand?

 

Boundries are what you expect from the child, what the child expects from you, and how you stand up for the rules or guidlines in your household. Boundries, for say a three year old would be No biting or hitting, say please and thank you, don't interupt adults, unless it is very important, don't jump off the coffee table. As well as less tangible things, like expecting respect from your children, because YOU respect them. Boundries isn't just saying "No." it is a give and take which forms the basis of the parent's relationship with the child.

Trust leads to the ability to make strong boundries without either parent or child losing themselves or their self esteem.

 

Boundaries are also about letting the child know what they CAN do-not just telling them "no, no, no". Tell your toddler she CAN color in coloring books or on paper instead of walls and toys.

 

that's such a great point. It's really important to say things like "only color on paper and coloring books" instead of "don't color on the walls" because alot of the time all a child hears is "color on the walls". It's also nice to make it positive, and also, when they are coloring on paper, comment on how nice that is, that boosts self-esteem and gives them positive attention so they don't go looking for negative attention.

 

Right, an essensial part of discipline is letting a child know what they CAN do, and to let them know when they are doing a good job. "Catch them being good!" is a good thing to remember. Kids don't need constant or insincere praise (this makes real praise ignorable) but casually letting them know what they can do, and calling a little attention when they ARE doing a good job is essensial.