The Revolution has Begun - Spread the Word!

i feel i do encourage,, also i feel i if one chooses to take it in the context i mean enlighten..

like i said i dont articulate well,, but i have spent most of my life on the edge workin towards droppin out.. i do truly feel i have somethin to offer,, but when folks come along with book knowledge and nuthin else an wanna act like somehow i have no clue it makes me(as it would anyone with pride) step up an call them out..

i dont claim to be free of babylon,, i have enough sence to know one can never be in this world barring a catastrophe that most whom think they are ready for could never cope in the said aftermath..

thats just it,, im tryin to enlighten an adjust folks to the reality of what they invision..

Never would i discourage anyone from living it and loving it..

cause lord knows we do...

As far as your stick comment,, i dont play games,, i never intend to be anything but myself.. im sorry ya misenterpret my statements as a act or game..

perhaps ya should come here to the farm some day an ya may see who i and we truly are..

Luv~N~lite
hilly dilli an clan..

 

Okay, maybe I came off as a bit demeaning to you hippiehillbilly, I am truly sorry. I'm sure this is all just a misunderstanding on both our parts. I apologize for responding the way I did, it *could* have been a bit less caustic. I just felt that you were incorrectly(and you did) judging me, or at least, the observations were not accurate. People, naturally, get angry when others say that they are a liar or that they're lying. When you said I was a hypocrite, that annoyed me because I really do live very meagerly. The internet is really my only luxery. And you have to admit, it is probably the best way to get my message out around the world quickly. I don't feel that what I have been or what I represent is hypocritical.

PS: As for the ignore link, I was only doing something that a well-known member(not naming names in public) did in the past when someone was harassing me, so I thought it was not out of line. I am not someone who doesn't listen, and certainly not someone who promotes censorship.

I will try to be more understanding of others views/observations. Again, I'm sorry. Let's set aside our past differences and start off on a clean slate.

Love & Peace Be With You ^_^

 

thats just it,, i didnt judge you,, i voiced my opinion an once again ya still are sayin,,

i wernt an didnt,, i made a observation an you went off on your shit..



i said what my observation was,, thats all..

an no... sane peoople never get angry over words on a screen,, on that note the quick post callin ya a prick at 5 in the mornin was cause i couldnt rebutle,, had to go to babylon,,, werntn no anger involved,, maybee frustration over lack of time but no anger here..

once again ya keep usin the words judging anger etc,,

ya really should try a lil harder to understand we all diffrent,, an especially here,, words on a screen dont meen nuthin..

come on down kevin..

then ya will see the true me..

 

Peace at last?? I hope so...I thought we who ended up here at the forums were all in possesion of "open minds"....

hippiehillbilly....I for one enjoy your antics, although sometimes a lil' harsh, are usually true....I especially admire the fact that you speak your mind whenever it speaks to you. I can be the same way, and I understand how frustrating it can get when my opinions are viewed as "fightin words"

old wolf...never can you be "out of line", you do your job as maderator well

KevinSmith......ChanginTimes....you guys have your hearts in the right place, but should keep an open mind as to the experiences of older members, maybe, just maybe, at one time, they may have been in your shoes...

I do admit, though, I like a good debate/arguement...it lets me know that people are still "alive" inside, and is one of the reasons I love websites like this one (my favorite one)

We just need to remember that peoples beliefs/experiences are treasured assets.

Thanks,

sodabandito

 

It was hippiehilbilly's choice of words. He DID come off as VERY condescending, and now all he's doing is trying to rationalize his position without trying to understand the other side. Maybe HHB should apologize for some choice words??

But regardless you heard Kevin in his last post...he apologized (and I don't really think he needed to) so any further attacks on him will *automatically* put him on higher moral ground without any questions asked.

 

O my the last word syndrome

Well now pardner all others have raiseda hand and extended 2 fingers in the air in the mutually recognized peace sign - could it be you still reserve the right to consider those of all of us not to be of all of us and so mayhap become the stranger in our midst

Not a good choice

When all else fails and you can See if you bother to open eyes clear in the spirit and leave the hurt emotions out - we are all in this together - and united - even in the strange ways we sometimes unite, strength becomes more as we are "there" for each other.


O BTW we've (the hollow in the S.W. Finger lakes region) finally started down the legal road of formalizing and have chosen Co-Operative Earth Embracing Initiatives -CEEI as our name
(SEE I - and a Seeing eye in logo form with the earth embodied in the pupil

- as we all strive to be true to Self and recognize our connection with All, Growing and coming to Wholeness within and attempting to manifest without) - better post that in the personal forum as well as it'll get lost here.​

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I'll probably regret saying anything about this, but I feel I must be a voice of reason that is removed from the senario. I feel that HHB, you did come off rather strong and not supportive at all. In these times it is essential to support all who are trying to do good, as there are less of us than the number of corporate whores. I agree that there was a misunderstanding between you and Kevin, but at the same time, you are disregarding how Kevin feels. Sometimes what you intend to say, and what comes across from the other perspective are two completely different things... and at this point it doesn't matter what you meant, it matters how the other person now feels. Kevin is telling you that he feels judged, so instead of telling him "I didn't judge you" you should tell him, in a supportive way, what your intent was.

Or, everyone can agree to disagree, but that never really solves anything.

People should be supportive of others whether they agree with the decision or not.

Blessings.

 

so anyway...who's planning on becoming part of this countercultural movement?

 

for the record i count no less than 3 appologies (if ya count scuse the fuck outta me ) )by me for yall misenterpretin my words already in this thread..

to immortal dissedents comment,, ya ever here of P.M.'s here?? you dont know what me an kevin have discussed or not discussed.. so dont assume by words on a screen that ya know the whole story..

,and as far as joinin yalls movement,, id say,

surely not anyone that read kevins emotional rant in random thoughts last night.. very emotionally weak and unstable thought process involved with that one..and how is anyone gonna lead a charge with such instability and lack of belief in himself as well as his dreams? what are we supposed to run behind him and stroke his ego the whole way or he is gonna give up?

hell even old wolf will tell you its about conviction and self determination,, not about whos gonna support me, and stroke my ego so i can keep believing my thoughts..

Ya do for yourself,,and yes its a neverending up hill battle.. you either have the conviction in your soul to see it thru or ya sit and cry into a computer screen cause noone understands..specially when that aint the fact,, the fact is some folks dont necessarrily disagree with your thought process,they choose to give reality checks..
You have to gain wisdom from people callin ya out and build and keep goin,,cause noone is gonna build your dream for you..

and that my young brothers and sisters is what building a dream is all about..

On that note,,
oldwolf i wont comment on this thread anymore till my names mentioned in a derogatory way again ..thats the best i can do..

Luv~N~Lite

 

oh wow. I saw how many responses were on this thread and anticipated a very active thread full of people harmonizing and exchanging ideas for bettering the world... the thread started out interesting and I even thought of emailing Kevin Smith for a second until I saw where the thread was heading...

it saddens me really.

that's all I have to say.


(and maaan, how many times did I use the word "thread"?)

 

I agree luna99, if by that you mean that this thread was totally taken off course. The meaning has been almost stripped out due to the arguing, I just want it to end so we can get back on track & begin discussing ways we can support the movement and share ideas. Anyone who says they don't need someone to lean on from time to time when they're down is not being completely honest with themselves. I've had a great response and the support, wisdom and caring of those who still love and support positivity. I'm not going to allow myself to succumb to anymore negativity, I'll just remember what the cause is and continue to strive for it, despite anymore hatred. I will simply not respond to it.

Thank you ChanginTimes and ImmortalDissident, you two have helped more than you can probably imagine. Seeing the changes going around me helped me to realize that things are becoming even more polarized, more than ever I see what needs to be done.

Life is all about learning lessons, and that I have. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

So... In the light of change and enlightenment, let's put this dispute behind us and get some ideas rolling again.

Some ways we could get the word out would be to post about the exodus on other websites/forums, put up fliers(in larger cities), advertising on billboards and magazines, ads in newspapers. Lot's of possibilities, what do you think?

Love & Peace Be With You All ^_^

 

kevin... yeah, that is exactly what I meant. A good lesson that I think everyone needs to learn in this world is tolerance. I try to live my life in this way... I do what I do, you do what you do, and as long as your actions aren't affecting me in a negative way.. everything is cool. Of course there are areas where the line gets blurry.. but exchanging words about "insulting" and "age" on a message board aren't going to get you anywhere.

if you are really behind what you are doing.. and wanting to make a positive change, then I think it's awesome kevin.. keep doing it.. even if it's just you to begin with. If it's the truth and honest, people will get on board. I'm actually a bit interested to just talk with you and see what ideas you have.. i'm going to pm you if you don't mind..

good luck!

 

I like the sound of this!

 

Without Babylon it is very difficult to fund a dream. Instead a balance between is often what is required. Most, who are able to make a dream such as this come to a point of being obtainable, have spent years working in Babylon so that they can at some point walk away and follow what they wish to. Dreams do cost money.

A word of caution though with regards to others opinions......if you are not open to that then you are simply going to run a dictatorship or cult. The ones who will stay will be of like mind and there will not be growth for anyone. Hopefully you will grow enough in you to not do so. You do have the time to grow and only you can decide if you have the desire to grow rather than to not.

I wish you well in finding a way to make your dream happen.

 

Heat, no offense, but that's thinking inside the box(unless I understood you wrong), money is exactly what we won't need once the move is final. I do not plan on supporting the system any further once we're on our own. That is self-defeating and is against the cause. We will need to pay off our debts to society before making the move, but after that we wont need any aside from a few bucks for when we're moving to the location, and that's only to pick up some food on the way, since we can't feed everyone off of what we'll find along the way, especially if it's on "private property". But in either case, thank you for your wisdom but I disagree that "Dreams do cost money", that's a dream without vision.

I also disagree, my fiance and I couldn't be much more alike, we have grown together more than we ever have when we were apart. It's like, once we found each other, our minds and lives have been supercharged, learning with each other faster than ever before.

And as I've said numerous times before, "If you have any ideas, send them in", so I am open to them and considering everyone's ideas. I know that I cannot think of everything, which is exactly why I take in the ideas of whoever thinks they have something to add. If it's good, I work it into what the final plan will be, if I'm not sure then I'll ask everyone else what they think so we can come to a consensus together. This by any means is not being thought up only by me, I'm just organizing it so that we will have a clear goal.

Having said that, if someone thinks that a choice I'm making is a bad one or there could be something better, please present your idea, I'm all ears. I want to make sure that this transition is as smooth as possible and that we have as many as we can so that work will be divided evenly and we will be less likely to make mistakes on important decisions.

Let's keep the ideas rollin'.

Love & Peace Be With You ^_^

 

still sounding great Kevin...I agree with everything you have to say...and I share your ideals. keep in touch ok? All too often people start chatting it up, everything sounds cool, then eventually they drift apart. If we're going to make anything work, there can be NO drifting... ;-)

 

I would like to start by stating that I do not in any way mean anything I type to be offensive or to be taken as critical as that is not the intent. Vision also involves planning for all that can and will occur. Without that, it is a pipe dream. Many communes do not make it because they can not ride out the disasters that are going to happen. Those do take funds to weather.

I spent a year in an Ashram that was run as a commune. So while all was shared and it was for the most part self sufficient, they also had the opportunity to be able to use Babylon to their advantage and it gave them the freedom to live as they chose. There was always a fund available for the services, items that could not be supplied by members.

The expenditure for food is the least of the ones that you will encounter.

I am going to present to you just some points for your consideration.

Unless you have a member who is willing to donate land that will be an expenditure that will have to be met, let alone all that will have to be done once you get this land. If you are going to be self sufficient and work your land you will need the machinery necessary to do so as with a community that is as large as you are hoping for you will not be able to do it with man power alone. This is not a garden you will be needing. So while you may have the initial outlay covered as expenditures, the usage is costly. Ask a farmer, even who runs a hobby farm, what his expenditures are and that will give you an idea of what is going to be required. Between maintaining equipment and just the fuel to run it, the cost is there and you will not be able to barter for gas.

Once you have this land, if it is already cleared and ready to be planted, given that the plan is to locate and depend on a crop the first year, there is a period of time before your crop is ready and you have a food source. You will need funds until that time to cover basic necessities. That is assuming that your crop is fine and that you by the end of the season have a harvest that is the required amount to sustain your community.

Living quarters will also need to be built and that will fall under the municipality that you live in. The days of just being able to build what you feel like are over and you will have to comply with building codes and regulations. It may even mean that the number of buildings is totally limited. If you are planning to use alternative heating and lighting and not have hydro you will then limit that expense. So if for example you choose to heat with wood, you will have to ensure that there is an ample supply as otherwise you will be purchasing that also some time down the line. You must also factor in the time issue as you will need to have living quarters built, heating resolved and food sources in place all within a very narrow time frame.

Your ideal of a stream or river for water is viable if you are sure of the water source being contaminant free. It then becomes a health issue. It can also be an issue with municipalities as most water ways are now protected and you can not draw directly from them without permission. Instead you may be in a situation where you have to have a private water source as in a well. To support a whole community it could prove to be a problem.

You will have to deal with sewerage as you will not have a choice as you will not be allowed to build unless you do. The amount of sewerage and the treatment of it will be paramount. The laws surrounding this are there for the protection of not only your community but also for the land. Environmental studies may even be requested by the municipality as if you pack up and go the contamination is still there and legally you are responsible for cleaning it up under new laws.

Even if you have members who are able to do some medical there is always the possibility and the probability that there will be some medical situations that have to be handled outside of the community. I have to assume that your ideals then would either have to be tempered and that you as a community take advantage of health care (read Babylon), otherwise you will have to have a fund to cover what can not be done by the community.

Schooling is another issue. You can be granted a tax break if you do schooling as long as you meet the mandate curriculum and use the material required. Those have to be bought by you. I am assuming that since you are very articulate that you value education. So if you plan to have the children attend the school that is municipal that is funded by taxes. If not then Babylon once again rears its head and you can apply for tax exemptions.

If you are going to apply for non-profit status then you will have some advantages. Must mention once again that this is a government break. You will still have expenditures that have to be met such as property taxes even with a NP status.

All income from what you sell, even if it is then used to purchase those items or services that you can not supply yourselves even under NP Status could still end up being classed as taxable income.

The days of you buy a piece of land and you may do as you wish with it are over.

I am not trying to discourage your dream. The opposite is true. If you are going to pursue this then it can not be with the ideal that we will need nothing and make it. That is the reason many communes do not as the vision was there and the reasons were good but that the practical was not.

Wishing you the best with your dream of a commune.

 

.

 

Heat, thanks very much for that...it's invaluable info and I really appreciate it. Unfortunately what you say is true...the American Empire IS greedy. It stole this land from the American Indians, raped the land, and now claims itself sole owner while at the same time destroying it through big industry. It's a crime against nature itself. But remember the title of this thread...a Revolution IS brewing. Anti-capitalism as well as anti-imperialism is in the air.

 

wow see theres a brilliant minded 37 year old female..

man i must say she makes kevin and changin times look mature beyond there ages,, or she looks like shes 12... hmmmmmmmmmm??