Friday April 29 on Oprah...You're Not The Person I Married

04/29/05 You're Not The Person I Married (TV-14)

It's the interview Oprah has wanted to do for two years! This woman's husband became a woman…and they stayed together! For the first time, the wife tells us why.

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Jenny was already on Oprah in 2003 to promote her book "She's Not There"
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200305/tows_past_20030506.jhtml

For 40 years, Jenny Finney Boylan was known to everyone as James. James was a husband and a father, a popular professor and a successful novelist. But James was hiding a shocking secret—he knew he was a woman inside a man's body.

A Life in Two Genders

After years of struggling to be something he was not, James chose to become Jenny—mind, body and spirit—a difficult decision that changed everything.

From "James" to "Jenny"

Transgendered—it's a word many of us have never heard. Jenny Boylan explains what it means to her and the process she went through to become a woman.

 

Hmm, I might actually watch Opera, willingly, for once. I never really was interested in shows like Opera...

 

Wow, what timing! My wife & I are having difficulties recently because I can no longer live the lie I have lived previously trying to be male. Oprah is a goddess in her mind so if it's OK with Oprah that is going to help me a lot.

 

i totally kept screaming at oprah on the tv. she kept calling her HIM. she is a SHE!!!! everytime...SHE OPRAH!!! screaming it.
it really irks me. its difficult, yes...but shes had jenny on her show before, theyve rehearsed...she can get that right. it just made her look really really ignorant.

 

You can alter your appearance, you can alter your name, you can alter your voice, you can alter your hormones, you can alter your mannerisms and you can even alter your birth certificate.

But there is ONE thing that transgendered people CANNOT alter: Their genetic code. Male-to-female transgenders will always have the XY (male) chromosone. Female-to-male transgenders will always have the XX (female) chromosone.

This is another reason why the ban on same-sex marriage makes no sense. An MTF transgender cannot marry a man because, in spite of her operation, she's still -- and will always be -- genetically male. Likewise, an FTM transgender cannot marry a woman because in spite of his operation, he's still -- and will always be -- genetically female. The mandnatory pre-marital blood tests will trip them up.

Incredibly, if either an MTF or an FTM is already married at the time of their operation, their marriage can be invalidated under the anti-same-sex marriage laws in force in 34 states -- and can even be subject to prosecution.

-- Skeeter

 

Tivo is a good thing.

Anyhow. I agree it seemed unconcionable that Oprah consistantely used the male pronouns but it did seem that she used them in past tense. She didn't use any pronouns when talking directly to Jennifer that I could tell. She pretty much used Jen. Jennifer was great, I thought. No matter what she held confident, witty, & insightful.

What I did find the most troublesome about what Oprah said was how she showed her prejudice show through so much. At one point saying flat out to Deedie (Jennifer's wife/partner) "If that were me I would be out of there" If I remember the quote correctly. The camera shots through the audience seemed to consentrate on biological women who only agreed with that kind of sentiment. Of course I only could see what they showed but It would have been a better if they would show even one or two audience scans that supported Diedre's support & continued love of Jennifer.

Something I did like though was after Oprah badgering Jennifer about why she would have the operation she turned the question back to Oprah asking her if she wanted a penis. After some stuttrering & stating that no one had ver asked her a questin like that she finally got the idea & realized that Jen didn't need one any more than she did.

 

there are message boards on Oprah's webpage that you can write in & tell them your opinion. I have been writing there most of the day.

The link to this thread is:
http://boards.oprah.com/WebX?13@236.ZGCPbYxR5Xb.2668712@.f0924c4/88

 

I enjoyed the show, and I love Jenny. I think she's one of the most beautiful woman/being I have ever seen. The audience seemed in love with her too, as this is not the first time she's been on.

However I couldn't help but feel she was a bit selfish. Which was probably Oprah's beef with her : Going through such an operation when you're in a small community and have two boys aged 8-12 is just like wow. Couldn't she have waited a few years for the sake of those kids? I mean, she went through an operation and she still stayed with her former wife...so it's not even like she was in a hurry to live her life. Meanwhile her kids have a lot on their plate because of that, it's not easy.

At the same time I feel bad for Jenny cause she's wasting her potential (Oprah even asked her, you went through all this and you won't experience what it's like being a woman?).

That's why I am thinking more and more that transgenderism is not delt appropriately, and the idea of "being in the wrong body" needs to be re-examined. Like Oprah said "why did you need a vagina?". He could be a female without going against his nature, cause there are no mistakes (in my opinion) there are just prejudices in a society that does not allow men more leeway in terms of dressing/behaving/growing up as they chose.

 

I just started to read her book & within the first chapter & a half I am able to say that this is something that she couldn't honestly hold within herself any more & she needed to do to feel right about herself. She stayed with her wife because she loves her. It is as simple as that.

To say that she isn't in a hurry to liver her life is short sighted, I think. She is starting to live her life just fine with the person she loves & the kids that they both love & cherish. I hope that my transition goes nearly half as good.

On the wasting her potential please don't think that I'm trying to pick a fight or flame you but isn't that like when a homophobic jerk says that a good looking lesbian is wasting her beauty? She did say that she was becoming curious about men though.

Some of this comers down to the age old question of whose to say what causes us to love the people we do. It is still amystery to me, I gotta admit. I do know that there is a large spectrum in the matter. If you can bear with me while I give you 3 examples. I have a friend who M2F transsexual who is only attracted to women, hence for all practical perposes now a lesbian. I have another friend who is a f2m transsexual who is attracted (I think) only to men hence now a gay. He introduced himself to me as a gay anyhow. I'm just starting this path, really. I'm bi so once I'm done instead of being a male bi I'll be a female bi. In these 3 people you have 2 examples of what according to the "wasting potential" theory aren't somehow sucessful. From what I can tell that isn't the case in either of their cases. Of course in this case there is finally something of an advantage of being bi.

I can't speak for everyone who has or is genderqueer but I can tell you that in most cases we do know that no matter how much we try to deny it, repress it, or try to "fix" it it always comes back. I just can't go on living what I see as a lie in this male body. Jennifer didn't use these same terms but the reality is the same. If you have the wrong body for your spirit it just feels like you are going through life in a wrong way.

 

I enjoy reading your opinion on this Snowdancer because you speak from experience, and I'm glad we're agreeing on most of the fundemantals except for a few philosophical differences...

First off I'm happy for Jenny cause she looks happy and beautiful. But my questionning was about a few things:
-Her going through such a drastic transition when her kids are 8 to 12
-Her wasting her relationship potential
-Her need to be herself through getting a vagina and breasts (as asked by Oprah)

#1 In regards to the kids it's a personal choice...I would have waited, she didn't, but her children would not the first to have to deal with something tough, life goes on.

#2 About her 'wasting her potential' you got me all wrong..guys who say that about lesbians imply a woman cannot give another love, which is a macho thing

Jenny on the other hand (at least from my perception) is no longer in a couple. Her wife admitted she's not attracted to her and she stopped having relations with her when she grew breasts. She basically said 'I'm staying cause we have kids'. Sorry, but I don't consider a situation like that being in love. Jenny deserves better whether from a man or a woman. Going through so much, only to have a partner reject you intimely is not fair..how long will she wait? I too felt Jenny was curious about men, so I hope she feels ok to explore her sexuality at some point...yet I'd still wonder why she did that to lose on both fronts, not get love from her wife yet not being able go out and be with someone who loves her.

#3 On why Jenny needed a vagina to be herself.. That's a biggie - but my argument (as ignorant as it may seem) is that society plays a part in the fact there's such a number of people who feel born in the "wrong body". I actually do not blame them for feeling that way if you read me well. But I just think there's no such thing as a mistake in nature when it comes to gender, only situations where little boys who naturally gravitate towards what is female are told that they are the mistakes..So obviously they start gathering that they need to become girls to *validate* their behavior, instead of allowing the behavior to define who they already are. Innately. Within their male body.

A male body is NOT -and should not be- a liability to being a "girl", or wear a dress, play with dolls, or do things that are feminine. Society makes it so. That's what Oprah was trying to communicate to Jenny with her question, and it's one I wish we'd all start to ponder.

In other words I'm saying that by "transitioning" TS people may actually (and unknowingly) aid to perpetuate gender biases and stereotyping..they may help validating the fact that to be womanly one needs to appear female, and blend right in.

The more revolutionary option imo would be to say "Although I'm born with a penis I'm still going to be a female in spite of the narrowmindness of people out there who cannot envision that possibility."

Instead, we're all just giving society exactely what it asks of us. It says there's a strict distinction between feminity and masculinity which 'belong' to one sex or the other, and we have to challenge and shatter those perceptions in more radical ways than getting a sex change only to fit a new mold. Go from one prison to the next, imagine that!

I'm not particularlty picking on Jenny's case here btw, but the show was a revelation for me. It really made me rethink the way I percieve sex/gender issues..

 

Just one little point - on the whole "couldn't she have waited longer before going through this" issue...

When I wanted/needed to come out about not being straight, i was asked by my mother if I could stop please, keep it inside and not make a big deal of it because its no one else's business. This was possibly one of the most unhelpful things anyone's ever said to me in terms of my sexuality and the problem with it was that it was meant with love but there was no understanding.

From what I can gather, the need of the genderqueer person to live fully as the sex that they feel that they really are is not something that you can just keep inside. It's not a small thing, being male or female and its something that affects you every day. It affects how you live your life, from big things like how other people treat you and relate to you and even small things such as which toilet to use in a public place.

You're right, perhaps our concepts of gender are a social construct. But by asking a genderqueer person to stay the sex that they feel that they are not and saying that they should move out of those constructs, you're not taking into account the difficulty of living outside of society and being, effectively, ostracised. If a genderqueer person is strong enough to do that, then good on them. But i'm thinking that most wouldn't be. Surely if someone has the opportunity to feel physically female are being physically male (or vice versa) for all of their life, who are we to deny that to them?

 

The kids are in a way at a good point in their life for this. If they were in their teens I think it would be harder. They are young enough that they are going to know Jenny as their maddy, one of the Son’s terms meaning Mommy & Daddy together. They also are lucky to have 2 parents that are there to love them. So many couples break up for lesser reasons from what I have been able to suss, Deedie & Jenney are going to be together for a while.

To a certain extent, I can't disagree with you that Deedie & Jennifer aren't consummating their relationship these days. That doesn't mean that they can't be in love. There are plenty of couples that for one reason or another can't have sex. Deedie would have to change her sexuality for this to happen* whereas if one member of a couple, I suppose especially the male, becomes paralyzed they have no possibility even if they both wanted to.

I am now about a third of the way through She's Not There. This isn't a decision that was taken lightly at all. Jenney agonized with this all her life. She did attempt to hold it in. It can't be suppressed. At least not in a healthy way. She finally came out to Deedie in 1998 & then only to admit to cross dressing. That is as far as I have gotten chronologically.

I agree it would be great if people could just express themselves the way that they want & society pushed all kinds of shit upon us. From my perspective as one genderqueer it seems that it is done in part to repress & oppress those that stray out of the coral. I'm not sure if the need to transition is entirely related to that though. I can say that I did try the concept of just wearing what I wanted to & it wasn't satisfying, I needed to be thought of as female & still do. I can also say that at least in what I'm experiencing people in general can deal with me better now that I'm growing breasts & keeping shaved.

Something that Taylor touched on.. I can also tell you that going into Men's rooms hasn't been comfortable for quite a while. Even when I had a goatee & wore skirts. I am pretty self confident so I have never worried for my safety but I have gotten many hairy eyeballs. A lot of guys backing out to see if they read the sign right &, actually what bothered me the most, young guys acting scared.

Once I have committed to this I have had people treat me differently. It seems with more respect. I have had a few gentlemen open doors for me. I have had people smile back at me or say hello back much more now. I also get the rude things a biological female has to deal with like have had guys honk their horns as they drive by & watch me as I walk by. I had always thought it would be fun to get this attention but it is a little uncomfortable, I have to admit. I haven't caught a guy talking to my chest yet but I'm not that well endowed. Something that is kind of funny is that people who have known me now assume that I can't do physical things like I used to. People I work with have offered to help me carry things that I have always done on my own. As I haven't started HRT still have the same muscle mass I ever had or at lease pretty close. One if the advantages of doing this herbally.

I'm straying a little but I was giving an insight to how people react. When I was a guy in a skirt I was a curiosity at best. I feel much less like that now even though I realize that there is a lot of that going on yet.

*The people that think that same sex loving can be cured should think of this example. She stated that she loves Jenney but can’t have sex with her. If you could unlearn sexuality she could unlearn being straight & have a great lesbian relationship with the woman she loves.

 

You brought up some great points

I was talking from a philosophical point of view, but I know that practically it's hard to live outside of society's norms and most people will try their best to avoid it. But I think the idea of "wrong body" still needs to be reexamined, cause it's a nonsense. Transition can be a choice some people make, but it shouldn't be presented as the solution to fix all the wrongs in society's perceptions of gender. It's not like if all tg were allowed to transition thanks to moderne medecine things would suddenly be dandier..The deeper issues still stand.

 

That's part of what I was saying. The need to transition is not solely related to how the tg person feels (cause when they're born hey're fine in their male bodies) it's also in relation to how others percieve them... It's a way to match the expectations of others with how they feel, and how they wish to be percieved and treated.

If you're acknowledged as a female when you grow breasts and shave, and if people respond to you better, of course it would justify transitioning to me. But it's a high price to pay to get what should be offered regardless if mentalities were a bit more open. But at least it makes society aware of the realities of the transgendered and maybe it'll make things easier for future generations.

I know what you mean..I think the solution might be what some American universities have being doing lately by creating "gender-neutral bathrooms". Those bathrooms don't have specific designations of male or female, so transgendered students on campus can feel comfortable and avoid being harassed in restrooms. So some changes are happening!

Here's the article
http://www.tnhonline.com/global_user_elements/printpage.cfm?storyid=823286