anybody want to tackle these? 1. John says just before Jesus died on the cross he "Cryed out in a loud voice". Here's the thing: crucifixtion kills by asphixiation. How could someone who's suffocateing "cry out in a loud voice? 2. John also says when the roman soldier pierced his side with a spear to make sure he was dead "there was much blood and water". Corpses don't bleed. when the heart stops pumping, blood stops flowing. All his blood would have settled into his lower extremeties. Considerring he was probably a few pints low from the scourging he took anyway is it likely that there would have been "much blood" from a wound to his side? 3. Jesus said "the Kingdom of Heaven is here and now". He also said "the Kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed" ie, something that gos into something else and grows as opposed to an actual place. so where's this "you go to heaven when you die" thing come from.
1)where does it say he cried out in a loud voice? When it talks about the Death of Jesus he asked for a drink, said it was finished, and bowed his head and gave up his spirit. 2)Trust me a corpse will bleed ;-) Go skin an animal. Also does water come with blood? It was to fulfill a prophecy..So if you believe in God then you believe in his Prophecies so that is easy 3)"the heaven on Earth" is talking about the Holy Spirit. He said faith was like a mustard seed didn't he? also Heaven isn't meant for man, when this earth is destroyed he's going to create a new heaven and earth The last one won't make sense if you don't look at it from believer's eyes because it's a believer's thing. Like you wouldn't understand BDSM if you didn't practice it. Not to mention if he speared him in the side he'd probably hit more then blood vessels. Also keep in mind that the romans where masters at torture. When you get Crucxfied you can breath by lifting your body up with your legs *like doing squats* to breath. After awhile you get tired and give up, then you suffcate to death.
The Kingdom of God has been started by Jesus, but has not completely come to fruitition. That's why there's this sort of "Now / not yet" feel to the kingdom that Jesus was enacting (one where he ate with all people, and associated with people from all classes, gender, etc.) [[[[This is why the idea of any political leader trying to enact Christ's kingdom on earth is ludicrous. Only God is the head of God's kingdom, not the Pope, or George W.]]] As far as the crucifixion details... Look, there's this tendency for people to want to try to prove everything in the Bible or the Gita or the Qur'an as if they were scientific documents. This is why Creationists get so upset: if the Creation story didn't quite happen that way, then their whole thought structure falls apart. So I take it on faith that Jesus bled from his side..water and blood..fine..whatever, Jesus cried from the cross or Jesus didn't. I probably would have if I were being crucified. The gruesome details of his crucifixion are not the basis of my faith. The event itself is the thing. Peace brothers and sisters! -Molly
Actually, the kingdom of God will come to fruition, not fruitition....but it sounds like a nice mixed drink though! ;p
27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. (but not from the gospel according to john, mmmkay?)
I've heard both sides of the argument as far as the crucifixition details and you can go back and forth all day: "How could he cry out"?--"Not everybody who was crucified died of suffication, some died of heart failure. and considerring Jesus was only on the cross for 3 hours heart failures the more likely cause of death". As far as how he could bleed after he was dead, we'd have to know how deep the spear was thrust in in order to make any kind of hypothesis one way or the other. Actually if you check out Matthew, Jesus actually did say "the Kingdom of heaven is as a mustard seed..." I believe he was saying the kingdom of heaven is something inside of us that grows, but that's just me. you're right gnrm23, I got John and Matt. mixed up.
They normally break a person's legs they are crucifying so they cannot breathe, but I think the bible does point out that they did not break Christ's legs because he was already dead.
That's true. That's why the soldier "peirced his side with a spear"ie, they thought he was dead but they wanted to make sure. Christians will tell you this fact fullfills a prophesy by Isaiah. Conspiracy theroists will tell you this helps support the theory that he wasn't actually dead, that there was a conspiracy that included at least one roman soldier to rescue him from the cross.
1) he didnt shout, he farted 2) the soldier actually stabbed in the bottom, i'm sure you can imagine the rest 3) because i'm not actually a christian, does it show?
Here's one that's more to the point. Luke 17:20 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
