Wicca... come on

Now, I could be wrong here, but ...

I don't believe they just mean bad things, I think the belief is everything you do will come back to you in threes, similar to the Buddhist belief in Karma only Buddhists don't teach that karma has a three-fold affect.

Darrell

 

Well.. it's not that hard to imagine. All religion have stuff in it that's more symbolic than anything else. Thereby, 3 is a number that has always had a certain symbolism (think of the holy trinity in christianity). The laws of karma can be quite mindboggling for some, but every can understand the threefold 'law' stuff. Note that it's not a 'law', more like a warning, something to keep in mind. You can still be an 'evil wiccan' if you want, you just have to deal with the consequences.. but a lot of religions have that aspect (evil= hell, evil= horrible reincarnation.. etc).

It would be nice if you wouldn't mock wicca so much. Ofcourse, there is a lot of 'fluff' out there, but there are also people who are dead serious about it and not into it for the 'magick' (in fact, the despise the use of that wrong spelling). Same goes for you Desapman.. would be nice to see you a bit more openminded about it.. there are people here who are wicca or closely relate to it (not me btw) and you don't show them a whole lot of respect.

 

Jack Chick heheh... thats where that is from.
Chick is totally whacked.. but.. very hip and retro collectables.
His 'Sodom and Gamorrah' masterpiece is something of a collectable now.

Christianity is a little less 'mystic' about things like 'Karma' or 'Curses'.
"What you Sow... so will you Reap"
It takes it to the more practical level I suppose.

As far as respect goes.. I personally enjoy most of the 'Keener' subcultures in my society.
Yes, I tease the Star Trekkers and the Everquest groupies I know.. but its all in good fun and usually they enjoy someone being humourous to them instead of mean-spirited.
Most of the Wiccan types I meet are generally very decent people who, at worst, have some 'Identity' issues.
Many feel a little 'left out' and need this role-playing to give themselves some feeling of 'special powers'.

Thats nothing so bad.

Sometimes some light-hearted observation makes them feel a little more grounded.

 

Hehe.. ok.. you're totally right.. without humour it's all way to boring.. and those trekkies are just asking for it! It's always fun to point out the stereotypes, as long as we don't forget that there is more to it than that

I mean.. the moment I can't make fun of this anymore, is the moment I'll kill myself.. hehe

 

Keep this in mind. Wicca is a new religion based on older cultures. Crowley was a "Magician" Paganism is not just about spells and magic. This is the missconception that pisses me off. I'm not Wiccan and I hold nothing against Wiccans. But Being a pagan is a worship also and a celibeation of nature. Seeing it as sacred. I hate when New age people come in and try to put there own stamp on it. One Woman claiming to be a witch said it was a fact most ancient Pagans were Vegatarians!! LOL Yeah that's why they had a God of the hunt!!!!! Anyhoo off the point. 3 folds law is taken from the easter belief in Karma. Personally I see no reason why eastern beliefs are involved with western paganism. Like I said just my opinion!

 

You guys have raised alot of interesting points, even if by accident.

Please don't judge Wiccans, or other pagans, by what you see advertised. People who run around, looking like "witches" and spouting off taglines are generally beginners, or wannabes. Some don't even realize it's a religion! That's because real, sincere pagans don't go door-to-door offering their beliefs. They know there is wisdom in knowing when to keep things to yourself, and someone who goes looking for people to debate with do so because they aren't really sure of what they believe in, and feel the need to prove themselves to others so it's more real to them, even if it's just on a subconscious level. These people have more to do with the growing misconceptions about pagans than the Christians and others who try to portray us as evil do!

As for RPG, tv shows, books and movies--well, put it this way. Do you think every day in an emergency room is as dramatic, interesting, and exciting as the show "ER?" How about the crime shows? Do you think mysteries generally get solved in one day, not to mention less than 30 minutes? Of course not, this is fiction, and has little if anything to do with real life.

Wiccans and other pagans sometimes give themselves what are called "magickal names" for a variety of reasons: to help them prepare their minds for rituals and other work (as christians, for example, may dress up for church), as an alias for correspondance (unfortunately, there is still alot of persecution in most areas, and someone leading a circle or writing a book may literally need to protect their identity), just for fun, etc.

That's all i can think to add at them moment, lol.

Oh yeah--the threefold thing. I don't think there's anyone that literally believes whatever you do will come back to you exactly three times. What the saying really means is that you get back what you put out in the universe, only it's usally bigger, more intense, etc. "What goes around, comes around" may be more accurate.

 

Mr Crowley
what went on in your head
ooh mr crowley
did you talk to the dead
-great Ozy song-

but Wicca is one of the religions I actualyl respect. Its not evil, from what ive heard its like a nature type religion. Christianity and anything like it is the religion i hate, always putting other ones down because they think theyre so right. But wiccan is alright.

 

Ok then, so what do 'real' wiccans beleive/do?

 

I tried to join the Pagan Student Association at Rutgers a few years ago, but there were a bunch of Buffy fans and they had these info sessions on "Discordianism." That one really offended me, because I thought I was in a safe place for people of faith, and the whole session was about calling religion bullshit... So I got on the president and gave them a bunch of reasons never ever to have that presenter again (I was not the only one offended, by FAR!)

But anyway, back to Wicca... I've been practicing for almost 10 years now, and I first became interested because I _was_ one of those depressed teen girls... Thank goodness I found that Wicca was all about acknowledging the Divine Feminine and the Sacred in everyday life...

The most stereotypical Wiccan/Pagan things in my life may be that I looooove The Mists of Avalon, Charmed, and Renn Faires. I love imagining a College of Women's Mysteries, so I like to daydream in that novel... I love Charmed just like my Catholic mother loved Bewitched... Who wouldn't want to wiggle their nose and the house is clean?? I would soooo love to be able to blow up demons like GW if I were like Piper, lol.... And I like Renn Faires because I like looking at the pretty costumes and people sell great jewelry there!

 

Yeah, the Brittish Ilses, an Egyption Ankh, a pumpkin that wouldn't be found in England for another thousand years, give or take a century... Definitely humor, though sadly on Chick's part unintentional.

 

There are some who worshi Satan, seeing that he is Set-an,
the Egyptian god, taking out by the pantheistic Hebrews upon
their Exodus from Egypt.

There was a falling out over there was a deity, or just a
concept. Lavey went with concept, others went with deity.

"Satan" is not he opposer of the OT, but like i said, an Egyptian god.
Lucifer was a roman god that got a bad name when Christians came to
town, and the opposer was the one who went agains El in heaven
and was cast down

ALL three of them are completly different.

As to Wicca, there are several faces to it. Wicca is a beautiful and legitimate religion to its mature believers. But it is also a trend for lots
of younger ones, who may oneday abandon it, or grow into the
faithful mature Wiccans that i have met.

 

They have reasons for their laws, i think three might be based
on the Celtic reverance for 3 as a special universal number.

But as to it really happening, it is a product of their beliefs,
if they do something they know was ethically wrong, then
they will be inflicted with it 3 fold.

That means only they, who abide by that, will get that.
if one doesnt then it wont.

But you have to consider when doing unethical things in
magic, usually involves an outside agent, who may come
back for payment, maybe in 3 fold.

 

Beautifully said!!

 

Thank you

*bows*

Yeah I think Heron is on the right lines with the three fold law.
Even so, I just doesn't work in terms of physics (equal and opposite forces) besides surely just an equal karmaic pay off is good/bad enough.
There's a great article on that somewhere, shall have to search it out.

So no, don't buy it, though am a great believer in karma.

 

Fluffy bunnies are great...

...when served with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

Did someone post this already? I sure am lazy today...

 

Well I'm Wiccan and I'm not a teenager, certainly not depressed, and Wicca is my spiritual path and way of life, not a "hobby". Some would even call it their religion. It is a very serious path for most, it's just unfortunate that for some people (mainly teenage girls, yes, however there are others) it is nothing more than a fad.

 

Kinda like those Choose Your Own Adventure books except it's Choose Your Own Consequences. If you don't believe in it won't work? Something about that rubs me wrong.

So are you saying that the practitioner determines what is and is not ethical? Or is it the outside agent? What if one does not distinguish between right and wrong? What if one has escaped dualism? Then there are no good or bad consequences; there are simply results.

What is the use of believing that if I do some terrible misdeed that it will come back to hurt me? What if it doesn't? What if I get away with it? What then? Does everyone get theirs? Obviously not. So what then? Can't we get beyond this whole cause and effect thing? This whole "I better not do that because God/Goddess/The Universe/Karma will get me" thing?

I take umbrage at belief systems which employ empty threats to cow you into line.

msi.

 

I dont believe in the "3 fold law" to begin with.

If you ask something to help you do something,
it may seem benevolent and help you, not
telling you there may be a price, and if
you are asking something to assit you
in doing something negative, then chances
are that it will come back for payment
from you, which, theoretically, could be
three fold. Maybe thats how it happened
once to someone and it became a general
tradition.

There is no set rule, you act like i said
there was. I was just explaining why
someone may adopt that "law"

But its like going to the mob
to have them do something for you,
there is a chance they will come
asking for you to do something
worse for them, or get it.

I dont believe in karma, as
it applies in eastern religions,
so i dont think if im good i
will be rewarded in a next life.

I do believe that I live honorably,
and with value and faith, that
I will have a place amoung my gods,
but if i am "bad" i wont be punished.

As to the "Choose your own consequences"
that is similar to the placebo affect. If
you do something you know is unethical,
then the negative energy may take
control of you, and guilt too. So if
you beleive that you will get it
3 fold, then you probably will.

Like if you believe you are sick,
and dying, you probably will.

 

It's up to the individual to determine whether they want to change their behavior or change their perception of it.