"jesus" The Mark of 'christianity!

sad for you:-((((((

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

Hey guys,

...
i haven't been paying attention to the petty arguing going on in the last few posts here,
but i do want to question again (particularly to fransisco, who seems to be confident in the matter),
the issue of the name Emmanuel (meaning "God with us") as prophesied in Isaiah.

your defense to the matter, fransisco, being that Jesus,
while admittedly not named from birth "Emmanuel" but "Jesus"
(or the original form of that name),
was given by Matthew the term "Emmanuel".

Keeping in mind that the book of Matthew was written some 35-45 years after Jesus' death,
is it not at all possible that Matthew, obviously having access to the Hebrew Bible,
plus the mind to see a need to prove Jesus' divinity through prophecy,
could have searched the OT and found an suitable prophecy, ie Isa7:14
(which I believe is fulfilled in Isa 8)
and added on in his Gospel that "Jesus was also called Emmanuel after he was baptised."
Thus giving "proof" (?) that Jesus' coming had been prophecied, which was necessary if anybody wanted to do any converting?
Nobody's going to believe in the divinity of Jesus without some back-up, right?

So, heck. Jesus wasn't named Emmanuel, but, he was.... called Emmanuel later in life.

?

I can't see how that proves anything.
That's like saying,
"I'll give you a dollar if the next guy to walk in the door is wearing a hat."
Then you go outside and tell the next guy to put on a hat.

And, as far as the meaning of "Emmanuel" having any significance
by way of Jesus' divinity,

Elijah also means "Jehovah God".
Elihu means "God himself".
Heck, doesn't the name Matthew even mean "Gift of God"?

Do any of these things mean that the above persons were God incarnate?

The fact that "Emmanuel" means "God with us" has no relevance,
and certainly shouldn't be used to prove that the coming Emmanuel is divine, or in any way a (or part of) God.


Anyway,
any counterarguments appreciated,
because I really am wondering about the other side of the problem,
and how believers or apologists counter it.


Peace,
Sophia

 

.

 

appreciate the time you took to respond, however, seems
you did not read the first post in this thread. please do so.

btw, there never was a name "jesus" until "catholicism" and "christianity"
named one head of their three-headed pagan "god" "jesus" some 500
years ago. and if you happen to be of the "jw" persuasion you err just
as they do. if you prefer to use the modern english version of The
Messiah's name, that would be "Joshua".

as to "Emmanuel".......

when The Messiah was baptised of The Great Spirit, it was then
that the fullness of Our Father entered in to Him. and "Emmanuel",
"GOD With Us" became a reality.

simply, "GOD was in The Messiah reconciling the world unto HIMSelf".

and The Messiah?

"The Son of The Living GOD"!
"a servant of The Only True GOD".......
"the firstborn of many Brethren".......
"the firstborn of creation".......
"the beginning of the creation of The Only True GOD".......

and The Only True GOD said, "Let there be Light".

The Messiah's teachings, which were of Our Father, and The
Messiah's Life example revealed "The Way to The Truth of The
Life".

simply, "The Way to The Truth of The Life" is:

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

and while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that many would "see" the "strong delusion" that
is "catholicism" and her harlot daughters of "christianity".
hope that they would "see" and take heed unto the call
of The Only True GOD and:

"Come out of her, MY people......."

come out of this wicked, evil world(babylon) and it's
religious systems.

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

hey francisco... thanks for the reply,

i did read the original post, maybe i missed something. my apologies if so.
actually, upon a second reading i wonder,
if during the reformation, the catholic church altered the gospels to include the trinity, the name 'jesus' rather than (j)oshua,
what else do you suppose they could have altered?

my use of the name 'jesus' is for clarity's sake here. if confusing, switch the name for (j)oshua as you read.

in any case, as per the question regarding the 'Emmanuel' prophecy.. i don't feel like you've explained or wiped out the problem described.
perhaps i'm missing a key point,
but i still cannot see the logic in jesus' being given the term "Emmanuel"
so much later in life,
(being that his given NAME was not Emmanuel at all, but Jesus/Joshua).

isn't that called cheating?
how is the Isa 7:14 prophecy fulfilled in any logical way in the Gospels?



peace,
sophia

 

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. [ Literally God-With-Us]

the way I read this it looks like Isaiah's saying the virgin will call his name Immanuel, and at birth.

 

it's really weird because the bible i have here,
(it's a study bible so it has notes on prophecies fulfilled or unfulfilled in the margins)
actually makes definite note that 7:14 is fulfilled in Isaiah chapter 8......

huh?

 

Isaiah 8:3-8




3Then I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the LORD said to me, "Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz; 4for before the child shall have knowledge to cry "My father' and "My mother,' the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be taken away before the king of Assyria." 5The LORD also spoke to me again, saying:
6"Inasmuch as these people refused
The waters of Shiloah that flow softly,
And rejoice in Rezin and in Remaliah's son;
7Now therefore, behold, the Lord brings up over them
The waters of the River,[a] strong and mighty--
The king of Assyria and all his glory;
He will go up over all his channels
And go over all his banks.
8He will pass through Judah,
He will overflow and pass over,
He will reach up to the neck;
And the stretching out of his wings
Will fill the breadth of Your land, O Immanuel.[b]


I don't see it, or at least I don't get it.

 

what i presented was how i felt "Emmanuel" was fulfilled in The Life
of The Messiah, with no reference to Is 7:14.

first there is no problem for me. as for you i can see why there is
a problem, for you rely upon what the "catholics" and "christians"
call their "bible". i used to do so also, and all "brainwashed(dirtyed)"
educated worldlings yet do so.

and you write of "logical":-(((((( hope is you would trade in the
logic of the natural for the miracles of the spiritual.

The Life is a matter of Spirit, not colored marks written on a dead
tree. and yet those words in the "bible" can yet change a life and
many there be that "set their affections on things above" not
because of what they have "read", but because of what they
experienced in the "reading".

remember "catholicism" had complete control over all transcripts
for many years and for those who have not "experienced The
Messiah and The Power that resurrected Him", well it is so easy
for them to fall victim to the "strong delusion" that is the
religious systems of this wicked, evil world.

sad for them and you, if indeed your "problem" prevents from
experiencing The Messiah.

"The Way to The Truth of The Life"?

the teachings and Life example of The Messiah yet reveal
The Way to The Truth of The Life! may you experience
"the simplicity that is in The Messiah".

the Hopi indians believe:

"a simple and spiritual life is the only life that will survive".......
and await the return of their "True White Brother".

i believe there are more living The Way to The Truth of The Life
and not naming a "name", than there are of the "name" callers.

and The Messiah will question, "Why did you call Me, Lord, Lord,
and did not the things which i said".

The Life is not a life of words and names. The Life is Spirit and
"of a good conscience and faith unfeigned".

and the simplicity of The Life is revealed to a heart that desires:

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done".......

as for your problem?

while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that you would receive of Our Father.......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

ok, so the story is... uh... as i understand it

judah is in danger of attack by syria and ephraim; king ahaz of judah is thinking of asking assyria for help but God tells him to ask for any kind of sign and he'll give it to ahaz as proof that he'll protect him.

but ahaz is so unbelieving that he says no, he won't ask for a sign.

so god's like, fine, i'll give you a sign myself! and says... yada yada....
a virgin (/young woman) shall conceive and bear a son, and his name will be Immanuel.
butter and honey he shall eat [ie.he'd still be very young], that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
for before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be foresaken of both her kings.


so about 21 months after the prophecy it was fulfilled with the birth of a son to the prophetess, before the child shall have knowledge to cry, my father and my mother, the riches of damascus and the spoils of samaria shall be taken away before the king of assyria. [ie so instead of being told to fear the trouble that was to come from syria and ephraim, ahaz was warned of assyria whom he was trusting in for help.]

 

sad to see anyone immersed in, and confused by that which
"waxed old and vanished away":-(

one thing though, if the "Immanuel" prophecy was fulfulled
by isaiah's son, then why did "the Lord say, call his name
Maher-shalal-hashbaz."

much the same situation exists in the thought filled person
as they "read" in matthew.

something for you to consider as you would "read" in matthew.

"that it might be fulfilled", not "the fullfillment of"........

"they(believers) shall call His Name Emmanuel"....... (yet in the future)

"he(joseph) called His Name Yahshua(Joshua)"....... (natural birth)

may you receive of Our Father, and desire above all else:

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that many would "see" the "strong delusion" that is the
religious systems of this world, and take heed unto Our Father's
Call to:

"Come out of her, MY people......."

come out of this wicked, evil world and it's religious systems.

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco
http://ASpiritualJourney.Org

 

You do realize that this "evil, wicked" world is exactly what God intends it to be. You can no more come out of this "evil, wicked" world of your own power and intent than you can change your stature with a thought. God put you here, and only God can take you out. The only thing you will learn by your own efforts to transcend this "evil, wicked" world is that you cannot do it without God willing it to happen.

God is your adversary in all things that you attempt to change. There is only one who stands against your will- God. If you don't understand this simple fact, God will not remove the obstacles that God has place in your path. God places the 'evil, wicked' world around you until you acknowledge God's power. When you see clearly that which is 'evil and wicked' just denies God's power in the works that it attempts (and therefore fails- a man who thinks he accomplishes stuff on his own is a liar and will fall upon the rock).

 

khar, you are liken unto a two-headed shrew, sad for you:-((((((

you live of your own flesh and know not The Only True GOD, yet at
times you use the word "god" as you seek advantage, and then you
write of your own self being a liar, "a man who thinks he accomplishes
stuff on his own is a liar". "stuff" is a good word for that which you
have posted in this thread.

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that you would deny yourself(die to "I"), that you would cease
being self-serving and begin serving Our Father, The Only True GOD!

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco
http://ASpiritualJourney.Org

 

posted to bring this thread to the top for someone to review.......

 

In Hebrew it is Yeshua, not Yashuha. True believers do not celebrate the Pagan-influenced holidays of the Catholic church, such as, "Easter", and, "Christmas". A small fraction of what you say holds truth... such as the evils of the man made institution of religion. However, the messiah IS God and that is where you are spiritually blinded.

 

The Messiah's GOD given name is not "Yashuha" it is Yahshua.

and The Messiah testified of The ONLY TRUE GOD, HE WHO was HIS Father.......

while on this earth He prayed to His Father in Heaven and testified that the
words He spoke and the works He did were not His words and works, but they
were the words and the works of The ONLY TRUE GOD, His Father WHO
was/is in Heaven.......

The Messiah testfied, "I ascend to My GOD and Father".......

The ONLY TRUE GOD, HE has no "god".......period.......

The Testimonies bear witness to The Messiah:

He was "a servant of The ONLY TRUE GOD".......

He was "the beginning of The Creation of The ONLY TRUE GOD".......

He was "the first-born of many Brethren".......

He was "sent by The ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL".......

"The ONLY TRUE GOD raised The Messiah from the dead".......

He was "tempted in all points as we are yet He was without sin".......

"The ONLY TRUE GOD can not be tempted".......

The Messiah testified, "touch Me and see for A Spirit has not flesh and
bones as you see I have".......

"The ONLY TRUE GOD is A Spirit".......period.......

"No man has seen The ONLY TRUE GOD" and many there were who saw
The Messiah.......period.......

yet pagan "christianity" imagined a "messiah" that would suit their worldly
desires and fulfill the purposes of the "god" they serve, he who is "the father
of lies", "the god of this world".

so they gave their version of the "messiah" a new pagan greek name and their
"christ" became one head of a three-headed pagan "god", or worse yet
became their "god", or an "angel":-((((((

"christianity", the religious systems, are Anti-Messiah:-((((((

and even in the apostle john's day there were many Anti-Messiah's:-((((((

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope there would be those who "see" and in "seeing" take heed unto
The Call of The ONLY TRUE GOD to:

"Come out of her, MY people......."

all who "see" and take heed, will "come out" of this wicked world(babylon)
and it's systems of religion. they will "set their affections on things above"
and as The Messiah did, so also will they desire above all else:

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

simply, such a desire is "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francis

 

I am sorry, but you are mistaken. Clearly, you know nothing of Hebrew text.

 

no need to "know" "hebrew text" for The Father of ALL, HE WHO Is
The ONLY TRUE GOD, HE reveals all things.

all you "know" is the "braindirtying" you have received from the system of religion that holds you captive:-((((((

and you have never "experienced The Messiah and The Power that resurrected Him".......

had you ever "experienced The Messiah and The Power that ressurected
Him", that jezebelic, witchlike spirit that now possesses you, could not.......

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that you would receive of The Love given of The Father of ALL to those
Children born anew of HIM, born of HIS Spirit, that same Spirit that birthed
The Messiah, both in the beginning of Creation and in the womb of miriam.

as of now you are blind, led of the blind, yet hope is one day you will
"see" "The Light".......

and as The Messiah(The Light) did, hope is one day you will also desire above
all else:

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

simply, "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

Miracles do happen! HalleluYAH!

hope is you would receive a Miracle.......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francis

 

Those of Jewish descent know their own language better than you. The name is Yeshua. I already have God and I do not need your demonic lies.

 

simply, The Messiah, when birthed as a physical child, was given
the same name as "joshua" in the old testimonies........

those of "jewish" descent do not know "The Messiah",
the only "language" they "know" is that of lies and deceit.......

those in The Family of "The ONLY TRUE GOD", they know their Brother.......

and when one is adopted into The Family, "descent" becomes just that!
a downward, earthly, fleshly direction that is desired no more.......

The Children of The ONLY TRUE GOD "set their affections on things above"
and desire above all else "The Will of Their Father".......period.......

you have a "god" alright and his lies are propagated by the religious
systems that are of his wicked, evil world(babylon).......

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

for Miracles happen! HalleluYah!

may you receive a Miracle.......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francis