Orwell

Discussion in 'Politics' started by FNA, Jun 12, 2005.

  1. FNA

    FNA Member

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    Lately I've been thinking a lot about global politics, and I keep coming back to George Orwell. All I have to say about that is if anyone thinks that we are "OK" and that Bush is fighting for our freedom, read "Animal Farm", then "1984" by George Orwell. The parallels are amazing.
     
  2. HonkyTonk

    HonkyTonk Member

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    no they really aren't.
     
  3. Eugene

    Eugene Senior Member

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    They're kinda realted but inverted.
    Fer instance in 1984, big brother watches you. In 2005, you watch big brother, and that is alot more cost-effective way of controling peoples minds. Instead of plotting revolution, people spend their time being mindlessly entertained by hollywood...
    In 1984, the revolutionary groups are controlled by the government... welll that one's true.
    In 1984, the government tries to destroy people's minds by making the language so basic that it's impossible to think of a crime (that was the aim of newspeak if you didn't pick that up), in 2005 the language has become so complex and specialized that it's impossible to discuss a revolution.
    In animal farm the pigs seize power and turn into humans, in our world the humans seize power and turn into pigs.
     
  4. LickHERish

    LickHERish Senior Member

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    Really Eugene? Specialised and complex? Perhaps for those who were schooled decades ago before funding for education was steadily eroded leaving us with the present reality of "dumbing-down" institutions passing themselves off as public schools. Text-talk, ebonics and all manner of creative spelling abound.

    Anyone who thinks Big Brother isnt steadily implementing the mechanisms for broad public surveillance has neither scrutinised the Patriot Act and multitude of additional more insidious riders hidden in otherwise unrelated Acts being forced through congress (and emulated readily in the UK) nor investigated the extensive range of industries lining up to facilitate its entrenchment. The surveillance industry, biometrics, and all forms of new ID requirements all in the name of the fraudulent War on Terror are the very facets of 1984 suggested by Orwell.

    Those that continue to deny that it is all coming to pass are those who have become so indoctrinated by media-reinforced myth about our leaders' supposed benevolence that they refuse to see what is being instituted before their very eyes. Such evasion of civic duty to hold our leaders accountable and remove them from office for abuse of power (let alone have them indicted for their corruption) is precisely what is allowing this "Homeland Security" expenditure bonanza to continue apace. What's more, at the expense of very the public whom it will eventually serve to repress and criminalise when the reality of it all finally dawns on the sheep.
     
  5. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    In the book "1984," nearly all the citizens were free from any form of government monitoring- remember, only government employees were subjected to government surveillance. In the nation that was once America, on the other hand, anyone's electronic trail can be monitored and examined, and the degree of such investigation and study is unknown and unknowable.

    Scott McClelland says that our success in Iraq can be directly measured by the number of attacks against Americans, and the number of Americans killed. McClelland says that the more attacks on Americans, and the more American troops killed, the more successful the mission.

    Orwell, at one time, seemed to have a good notion of human nature. But now Orwell actually seems a bit naive and idealistic.
     
  6. LickHERish

    LickHERish Senior Member

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    Actually Sun, in 1984 government employees were all that remained of a tattered bourgois society. Anyone who could consider themselves anyone WERE in the pay of the government and all the rest of the masses were desparate marginalised outcasts in their own country, living amongst the rubble.

    The more divided we are kept and the more we are extorted to fuel a perpetual fraudulent war against fabricated boogeymen, the closer we get to that societal collapse.
     
  7. element7

    element7 Random fool

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    Now that's pretty profound. Especially that last sentence. :)
     
  8. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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  9. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Lick', yes I think your words more completely describe it. A government doesn't need to control all the people directly- just control those with any real power, and the rest will generally have to fall in line.
     
  10. FNA

    FNA Member

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    Well, I was more refering to the rise of fascism. In Animal Farm, the animals took over the farm, ousted the oppressors, and created a democracy in which all would be equal. The only problem with that is that there needed to be someone to run things. Naturally the smartest animals (the pigs) lead everyone, and everyone trusted them. When the pigs took the puppies away, they said "Don't worry, it's in the best interest of all." When opposition appeared from the other pigs, they were immediately labeled as traitors, and chased away or killed. "It was in the best interest of everyone" the pigs said. Whenever anything went wrong they now had an enemy to blame. The animals willingly accepted that things which they didn't like were necessary to maintain their democratic way, never realizing that they had less and less of a say all the time. Eventually when the pigs took over, in the likeness of the former oppressors, no one could even remember the good days anymore.

    I know I'm not very articulate with this, but it seems to me that this has served as a guide to the Administration on how to build an effective Empire.
     
  11. FNA

    FNA Member

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    Well, I was more refering to the rise of fascism. In Animal Farm, the animals took over the farm, ousted the oppressors, and created a democracy in which all would be equal. The only problem with that is that there needed to be someone to run things. Naturally the smartest animals (the pigs) lead everyone, and everyone trusted them. When the pigs took the puppies away, they said "Don't worry, it's in the best interest of all." When opposition appeared from the other pigs, they were immediately labeled as traitors, and chased away or killed. "It was in the best interest of everyone" the pigs said. Whenever anything went wrong they now had an enemy to blame. The animals willingly accepted that things which they didn't like were necessary to maintain their democratic way, never realizing that they had less and less of a say all the time. Eventually when the pigs took over, in the likeness of the former oppressors, no one even knew the difference.

    I know I'm not very articulate with this, but it seems to me that this has served as a guide to the Administration on how to build an effective Empire.
     
  12. Eugene

    Eugene Senior Member

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    The entire "you watch big brother" thing was not refering to the television show 'big brother' but is pretty much ripped off verbatim from Chuck Palahuanic's novel Lulaby (it's a good read).
    Oh, and Animal Farm is a very thinly veiled attack of soviet communism (not all comunism, Orwell himself was a socialist), every character in the book symbolized some part of the revolution.
    The horse was Russian industry, the windmill was a soviet ecomony, the battle of the windmill was WWII, squealer was pravda...
     
  13. Clover

    Clover Member

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    We read "Animal Farm" in our literature class, and actually the book is an allegory of the USSR and how the communists who were supposed to change the whole system ended up being as bad as the rest. The pig (communists) start with honest ideas of equality, but at the end power corrupts them so much that they are transformed into humans (who represent the rest of the countries).
    Orwell referred to the USSR, but I suppose it can be applied to other countries as well.
     
  14. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Orwell was complex. From what I've heard, he hated pacifists most of all, and even compared them morally with Hitler and Nazis. Before Godwin, obviously.
     
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