More lies from Iran

That's what happens when you threathen to bomb, terrorize and slaughter another people (in this case, Iranians).

 

One more vote for blame America.

 

Funny how you fail to put your own more fitting category of "Ignore all connection to decades of US/US-backed wrongs in the region". One can only suppose it might be too hard to tabulate just how many votes your own inane posts and threads would translate into.

Obviously 25 years of perpetual US support for The Shah and his brutal Savak doesn't factor into your surface comprehension as to how such disdain for Washington could flourish in Iran (let alone throughout the region).

Now lets watch PB again just shrug off uncomfortable historic reality with his trademark ideological excuses. Much easier to pretend all issues exist in neatly compartmentalised vacuums with no context to consider whatsoever.

 

Lickherish, this is politics, nobody's innocent, and everyone's guilty, especially considered over the whole of human history.
I'm not excusing any of the shortsighted, stupid, and downright terrible stuff that the US has done over the last 50 years, but hey, the british are FAR worse with human rights, and i don't see you bitching about them so much.
I mean, talk about a group of people who totally fucked over the middle east!

 

I blame the US, not Chile, nor Brazil, nor Argentina. I am an American by heart. That is, south american. How would you feel if we started calling every argentine "american"?

Of if Germans suddenly decided to call themselves "Europeans". The Europeans.. "What, the french?".. "No silly, the europeans aka germans!"

Your imperialism has even manifested your language.

See?

 

Eugene, I wholeheartedly agree, the British themselves were responsible for much that preceded Washington's own continuation of the same repeatedly failed imperialistic (albeit for corporate hegemony) policies and interventions (covertly or overtly) in the region.

As I've pointed out many times repeatedly though, I am an American (US) citizen and as such am obligated to hold MY own government and nation accountable first and foremost.

PB and those like him prefer to ignore the direct link in modern geo-political conflicts, especially in the ME (let alone Latin American and many quarters of Africa) to repeated machinations by Washington - as the inheritor of the mantle previously born by Britain in its heydey of imperial expansionism. A reality recognised widely by those throughout the region whom PB would simply dismiss as "haters of America". May he live to watch his own loved ones annihilated by our bombs or dragged off by marines or CIA operatives to be tortured and called "terrorists" for daring to fight against our grasping desire to control their countries and resources. I suspect he wouldn't be such a smug cultural and moral relativist thereafter.

I certainly welcome any Brits or French or Belgian or German, et al citizens who assume their obligations to hold their leaders and systems accountable, but that is neither my place nor rightly that of PB however presumptuously he might claim the moral legitimacy to do so. Until he and those of my countrymen like him are prepared to address Washington's own criminality and corruption, they remain nothing more than self righteous hypocrites with no moral legitimacy whatsoever.

 

Communism, I really don't care if you don't like Americans calling themselves American. You are being petty and irrelevant, please go read a transcript of the latest four hour speech by Castro or something useful.

LickHimSelf, stop trolling this thread. If you don't want to talk about Iran's nuclear weapons program, you don't have to be here. There are probably a dozen active threads where the topic is hating America, knock yourself out. Also, I'll criticise any government that needs criticising, if you are to cowardly to do so that's your problem.

The Non-proliferation treaty does not say "except when you can blame America". If every country with a historical gripe of some kind or hatred of a nuclear armed country decided to arm themselves based your apologies and excuses, the world would be gripped by a massive nuclear arms race.

What we are seeing here is the progressives falling all over themselves to defend and excuse Iran's right to violate the Non-proliferation treaty and build a nuclear arsenal. Can someone tell me when progressives got so lost that supporting the right of repressive theocratic tyrannies to violate treaties and build nuclear weapons became part of the platform? Seems to be this is what happens when you are so blinded by all consuming hatred that you lose any concept of reality.

 

Again further proving your blind hyper-nationalism and lack of intellectual credibility. You are moreover the true coward for remaining safely ensconced on the populist bandwagon which ignores the far greater international criminality and corruption of our own government, our MIC and the entrenched network of psychotic insitutions that perpetuates and extends its crimes around the globe. You have no concept of civic responsibility and all your threads such as this one are repeated evidence of your tabloid indoctrination in world affairs, as selective and morally relativistic as it is devoid of all geo-political context.

You sir are the troll and if one considers what our nation was founded to repesent you are, like your neocon idols and all the mindless fools who make excuses for them and their beligerent militant foreign policy, the true enemy of our nation.

Any finger you point elsewhere is pointed many times over back at Washington. Shall we consider:

1. Wars against two nations which neither attacked nor presented any threat to us, in total contravention of Article 2 of the UN charter and The Nuremberg Principles (both duly ratified by Congress and never rescinded)

2. Abduction, indefinite detention and torture of other nations' citizens without proof and without due process of law. All in total contravention of the Geneva Convention (let alone the principles of our own Constitution) which this administration repeatedly declared as "quaint" and "irrelevant".

If international law is not binding upon Washington then you and your idols show yourselves for the liars, hypocrits and indeed criminals you are in claiming anyone else be held to account by them. Lead by example or shut the hell up once and for all.

Go join in at military.com, your neocon sycohpantry and hatred of the world we must share rather than exploit and bombard and manipulate for our own gluttonously overconsumptive ends will find a warm reception amongst those jackboot zombies.

No what we are seeing here, as in every thread and post you make, is a smug attempt to find any justification to presume to be the arbiters of all world matters and assume the right of unilateral "enforcement", aka War of Aggression. You types learn nothing from all such previous presumptive attempts to force our ideas and our preferred leaders on other nations just because we can regardless of the the duration and extent of the instability and suffering it causes.

 

Well, either way, I doubt their target was going to be the US. It's not an excuse or sympathizing to offer ideas that help us understand the issue. You're right, they probably started developing the nukes because of Saddam, but now, with the US right next door on both sides, I can see why they feel some pressure. They also have few allies (their main one being Syria), so you can see why they might want to protect themselves from Iraq and the world (Pakistan, next door, and India a bit further on, are both nuclear...I don't know their status with Iran, but that could be significant).

 

A lot of Americans are frustrated this time since Iran turned the tables with its latest statements and blamed the U.S.

Speaking of Pakistan, why no mention by the U.S. govt about Pakistan? A Pakistani scientist just got busted for selling nuke technology. Not to say there's no concern about Iran, but Pakistan troubles me much more than Iran. It already has the technology and its leaking out to other groups. There'e no democracy over there either, much the same as Iran.

.

 

"Death to America" is regularly chanted in Iran's Parlaiment and in public gatherings across the country. Why are you making excuses and rationalisations for this?

 

Another handy, non linked, headline snippet from your tabloid sources PB?

What's worse in your view, shouted slogans or two countries violently invaded, bombed and occupied with tens of thousands of civilians slaughtered and thousands more indefinitely detained without legitimate charge nor proof?

Go on, impress us with further illustration of your moral relativism.

 

Are you denying that this happened or are you just wasting space with your rants? You realise that nobody needs you here to angrily denounce every single word I say.

Please try to understand that the topic of every single thread is not "I hate America". This thread, for example, is about Iran's nuclear program.

Also, get a life.

 

I have a life thanks, but perhaps I should suggest you get a new slogan. "Hate America" only further confirms how lacking you are in critical reasoning. Not that at it comes as any surprise to the majority here upon whom you regularly foist your "cut and paste" (oops, another of your routine indictments which you clearly practice) regurgitations of slanted corporate headlines.

 

There's not much legally the U.S. can do to stop Iran from having a nuclear energy program as long as it abides by NPT. Even NPT doesn't mean much these days, as so many countries belong to it and so many have violated it.

I wouldn't say Europe was lock-step with the U.S. regarding Iran. There were countries in Europe (such as Germany) that were doing nuclear business with Iran but were persuaded away by the U.S. with rewards or threats of sanction. Iran is down to Russia and China right now for its sources of nuclear technology.

Iran had a rich nuclear energy program in the 60s and 70s when the U.S. had the Shaw installed there, something like 26 nuclear facilities being built. Things went sour in the late 70s with the Islamic revolution in Iran and their nuclear program stalled during the 80s when they were at war with Iraq. Relations haven't improved any between the U.S. and Iran in 26 years. Europe has warmer relations with Iran.

Former special envoy to Saddam, Donald Rumsfeld. If I had a pic of former 'special envoy' to Iran (Oliver North) I'd post it too. There were a lot of secret talks by the U.S. going on in Lebanon in the 80s, trading arms for U.S. hostages behind Saddams back (maybe even right while Rummy was shaking hands with Saddam).

 

Im not threatened in the slightest by PB. On the contrary, I find him laughable. Merely giving back to him what he has routinely dished out to anyone here who seeks to examine the actuality of matters behind the smokescreen of mainstream headline news.

I have contributed quite susbstantive analysis on many issues, but like many others find it a waste of time and effort to continue doing so in any thread denigrated by PB's derision.

 

Point

You say that –

This thread, for example, is about Iran's nuclear program.

YET your original post the one YOU began this thread does not seem to be about Iran’s nuclear program but about telling others how they think?


You suggest three options (then you confusingly give four options and even five in one of those four options)

Blame America/Bush/Globalisation/Capitalism/the Illuminati,

Support Iran's right to violate international treaties,

Suggest some non-unilateralist, non-coercive diplomatic solution,

Suggest nothing, but complain about whatever the US does.

They are your ‘calling card’, your often-repeated litany of complains levelled at many of the forum members.

All have been addressed at one time or other but you insist one spewing them out time after time like a drunken bore at the saloon bar.


**

As to actually discussing the Iranian leaderships nuclear program it is about power and presumed self-interest. Many countries throughout history have acted in such a way out of what they see as there own self-interest.

If Point wanted to understand the Iranian leadership he only needs to put himself in their shoes, but maybe he hasn’t that level of imagination?

I did suggest this another time and as I recall he claimed then that he couldn’t make himself think like such ‘evil’ people.

**

 

Balbus, you are a complete waste of time. Whereas Lick provides entertainment value, you are totally worthless.

There is only one crime I cannot tolerate in HipForums, and that is being boring. You are a repeat offender. Please do not respond to any of my posts in the future.

 

Amen to that! I've tried to have "discussions" with Balbus but have found his posts so long, byzantine, and uninteresting that I really didn't feel like wasting the time to read them and consequently, just let the thread die. One way to "win" arguments, I suppose.

 

Balbus,
The reason why it's so difficult to walk in some one elses shoes, or to understand why some one else would be suspicious of our motives, is rarely caused by a simple lack of imagination.

Unfortunately our difficulty goes far deeper.
The roots of our difficulty goes to the depths of our attachment to identity.

However, we cling ever more desperately to our Nation, Religion, and Class, when we feel our Sexual Identity is threatened.

The Sexual Identity of the White-Male Establishment in Mainstream America
was threatened by their humiliating defeats in their struggles against the Vietnamese and Black America.

It's no coincidence that Mainstream America began clinging more desperately to Nationalistic, Religious, and Capitalist identities after these humiliations.

Mainstream America is NOT sexually secure enough to be able to let go and walk in another's shoes.