The Downing Street Memo

In response to matthew's second post. I'm not coming to it with any preconceived notions (from any angle). I'm trying to figure out what angle to come at it from based on other's opinions and news sources (not necessarily in that order). I'd like to form a bigger picture of the issue before constructing my own opinion.

And yes your right it's good that I've heard two extreme opinions (although I prefer not to think in terms of left or right). I like the discussion (arguement?) that is developing here. I haven't read through all of the sources here yet, but when im finished it should be enough to at least give me a start on figuring out what I think of this complex issue.

 

There is no "left" or "right" about it, only simple recognition of actual agendas at work and long running interconnection between big money aspirations and our interventions (both military and political) in the region. Left and right are fabricated notions to divert public attention away from what our leaders and their financiers consider simply "pragmatic" necessities to ensure continuation of their global interests.

I advise you from falling prey to the surface rhetoric of those who simply refuse to do the legwork required to connect the dots. The only extreme in this equation is the waging of war of aggression based on premeditated falsehood - in contravention of all precepts and principles of international law that give the "rule of law" any meaning at all, and regardless of the tens if not hundreds of thousands brutally slaughtered and summarily dismissed as collateral damage - all for the sake of securing a global franchise to exploit the resource wealth of other sovereign nations over the longer term.

 

LS, thanks for that excellent link.

However, even with all the political and economic facts of life, we can not free ourselves from our destructive irrational momentum.

Our political and economic motivations are far from rational, they are not even what they appear to be.

Like Religion, Politics and Economics is Sex by other means.

 

I appreciate that you explain your self very well, but the more complex interconnections you make does not always make your point have any more credance. Throwing in a multitude of different refernces just makes the holes in your logic more apparent. Yes you know more than myself (not a difficult endeavour to achieve) but even so i only try and point out in my ham fisted way, that you are not completly right. We should both question our thinking and i appreciate i get more out of this than you do.

 

Thank you for admitting that you don't have the background in these matters that I do. That is at least an honest admission. As for suggesting holes in my reasoning, I defy you to highlight them rather than continuing to make vague pronouncements of supposed fact, which are not factual at all.

I have spent years questioning my beliefs and presumptions and reinforcing that self assessment with concrete research and investigation into matters which I once presumed so cut and dry and neatly compartmentalised, much as others here continue to presume with their every dismissive post.

I once wholly subscribed to the status quo and even ardently advocated much the same regurgitative surface blather that characterises the bulk of our respective nations' misinformed citizenry. Extensive travel and firsthand witness to the uglier reality of foreign policy and the impact of those profiting directly therefrom were instrumental in opening my eyes. I can only suggest you do the same. The mechanisms and institutions of global hegemonic control are varied and, contrary to your preferred sanitised appreciation of the matter, indeed complex. That does not however make it unfathomable, merely a bigger puzzle to work out through dedicated research.

 

I leave picking holes in your logic to people that know better. You dismiss all of it anyway. I could sit here all day and try but this is the point i am NOT well schooled in this as much as you. This does not mean you are wholly right and not wildly biased.. this fact is highlighted from my level to the higher level of thinkers on this. This is clearly rude of me, i won't apologies for it (because i think you realise i am not a malicious person). All i do is say 'hang on a minute there Lick'. I have not once seen you be reasonable with your detractors and say 'you have a point there'. Even your comments to me (that are slightly more friendly) are tinged with a level of righteousness that i find a bit off putting. If you have a broader understanding of it all, i take my hat off to you. I still think you use your knowledge to a hinderance to yourself sometimes, but i appreciate when you read naive thinking it can wind you up. Like you and LS say when people say it is 'all about oil' i agree with your thoughts that people do not open up ther thinking on that. You are clearly a big fish in a small pond this is quite apparent, it seems to have gone to your head. It is all a point of view and i have learnt to question my POV from my detractors (you being one of them). You always seem to think you are right though.

http://www.tacomapjh.org/petrodollartheories.htm you might like this also. I think the thought about 'its all about oil' has a validity to it, but it is always seems to be based on Mr Bushs (and his cronies) personal gain. I understand from your posts you have more weight to your arguement though. So i am not going to argue with you again .