I've been learning a lot lately about class inequality...

No matter how hard you work, no matter how hard you try, you will never be as rich as Bill Gates and you will be lucky if you can pay all your bills on time.

 

Unless of course you find some way to revolutionize an industry like Bill Gates did.

 

Wow what a useless post.

That is the problem with communism. People won't carry out their jobs, they simply don't see a need to. If the people get their food and homes regardless of how hard they work; why work? Communism simply will never work.

 

It might work only if the change came about slowly, and evolved from an extremely left-wing socialist model. The closest thing we have to communism that actually works today is the welfare state (Sweeden, Austria, Belgium, etc.), and that's only been applied to relatively small nations.

The problem is that most communist regimes that have existed came about as a result of sudden violent change, and that never really works with anything.

 

Sure as hell worked for America.

 

Europe has a population twice that of the U.S. and their average unemployment rate is triple. As America's population increases while the number of jobs decreases, more Americans become increasingly dependent on social welfare programs. You are a fool if you think people don't want to work. There simply are no jobs available. I have put my application in for dozens of minimum wage jobs and I have asked to see how many other people apply for the same job. Most of the people I ask are nice enough to show me the stack of applications and it is usually over an inch thick. My 4 year college degree is worthless. The manufacturing jobs continue to cut back because of new automation technology, outsourcing, bankruptcy, you name it! People act as if capitalism will work forever. It isn't true. It has worked very well for a long time but appears to be failing the average citizen more each year. You tell me how someone who is lucky enough to have a minimum wage job is supposed to finance a $300,000 house? Loans don't go past 30 years.



At least the unEmployed get a 100% tax cut.

 

You can't, that is what grad school is for. Capitalism doesn't benefit people who don't try to succeed, nor should it.

 

my husband got a GED and never went to college, and now he's making $100k/yr because he's busting his ass. work ethic and ability seem to go a lot farther with the companies hiring these days than college diplomas, except in specialized fields.

 

You missed the point completely. People want to work here because if you dont work you dont get money. With communism EVERYBODY has a job and EVERYBODY in that job gets paid exactly the same regardless of how hard they work. Thats when people start to realize they dont have to try. They are still garunteed a job and still garunteed the same pay. Why work hard for it when you dont have to?

 

And that is a damn shame. Not everyone's goal in life is to go to grad school, or be a doctor or lawyer. Not everyone's measure of success is a capitalistic one.

 

thats awkard...you said not everyones measure of success is a capitilistic one, but you call it a shame that capitilism doesnt benefit those who dont try to succeed in a capatilist word? Why should you care how well you succeed in that society if its not your(or others if you meant that)
measure of success?

 

Mechanics shouldn't get paid as much as doctors. Never. There is a need for class distinctions. I'm not supporting class exclusion or anything like that, but there is a need for distinction between different classes. If everyone was kept on the same level financially there would be no incentive to progress.

 

Here's a good interview examining commie work ethic:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/peoplescent...transcript.html

This passage was kind of interesting and explains how hard people can work for reasons other then capitalistic gain.

Fedorova: I can't compare with capitalism at that time. That time we were doing our thing; we were doing it with enthusiasm. We were told by the Komsomol sixty years ago, we were going there to build the best metro.... The amazing thing was we had this great wish to do this great thing which people didn't believe possible. In 1934, a well-known hero of the working class, H.G. Wells, came to look at our Moscow metro. He looked at the technical difficulties and told the personnel they won't be able to build it. But the enthusiasm of the young led to these great things. They built it. We didn't always believe that it was possible. An American consultant and a very good solid engineer, John Morgan, helped quite a lot with the engineering. Yet he didn't believe that it was possible to do it; to dig a meter in 24 hours. But our boys did three meters in 24 hours. When Morgan saw that, he said, "I didn't reckon on the enthusiasm of the Komsomol."

And no it wasnt a classless society but it was about as close as we ever got. I think that if this same mentality could be achieved without totalitarianism then it seems like it could be a pretty effective system.

 

Are you trying to say that if we work hard in this system of capitalism we will succeed?

what idealist crock!

There are families in ohio (the heart of the nation) who work 3 minimum wage jobs per parent just to stay afloat... and they still cant all their bills.

Meanwhile those born to wealth such as Bush and Kerry have not worked a day in their lives!

The two men who have the greatest chance of being the leader of this country not only went to the same ivy leage school (yale) but were also in the same "club" (scull and bones).

We are taught in classrooms that any american can become president.

a lie

the truth is that any rich caucasian american born to wealth, power, and the right connections can become president.

Wouldnt Honest Abe be so proud of us...

Fact: In any competetion there are no winners without losers.

think of it as starting a game of monopoly in which 1 of 2 players already owns everthing.

 

My dad's a professor, an academic workaholic with a Ph.D. in Political Science, and four other degrees in History, English, Chinese, and Japanese. Yet he's never held a stable, tenured job (in a way, he's overqualified, and the fact he's a white Caucasian male working primarily in East Asian Pacific studies doesn't help), and our family's moved around over a dozen times since I was born, and lived in apartments until I was 16 years old. My dad, a fierce meritocrat, doesn't really complain and just accepts things as they are. But it's been enough to convince me that the idea our system only benefits the hard-working is a lot of bull. At first it may, but now it primarily benefits those with connections, and those who enter certain fields like law and medicine.

 

Supposition 1: all societies, by the nature of society, have a heirarchy (I would love to hear from anyone who can point out a cohesive society that didn't)
Supposition 2: In this heirachy there must exist a rich and a poor(er) class.
Supposition 3: Whenever those in the rich class become extremely exclusive, the lower classes give up.
Supposition 4: in the case of cuba, china (to an extent there is some nuveau riche ((appologies to the french))) USSR etc.. the wealth though it changed hands is held by the uppper class
Supposition 5: In the case of the above the rich maintained their wealth with the zeal of their predecessors.
Supposition 6: whenever the poor become hopeless revolution occurs, often with bloody results.
Hypothesis: the glue that holds societies and classes together is the upward mobility of the lower classes. If people believe that by hard work and determination they CAN improve thier status in life, they will work hard and be determined, or die trying. This creates a lot of class cohesion because both sets of people can be seen as the same ones.

 

you forgot the concept of street smarts. book smart only gets you so far. my husband never graduated high school and he's making beaucoup bucks in a highly technical field. my father is in much the same situation as yours, and once he gave up the concept of trying to lead the academic life (since we have so many and it's only useful to a certain extent), he went back into shipping. when i first quit attending school so that i could get some real world experience he was stunned and hurt, but then he saw how well i was doing and how much i was learning. i think too many people place too much importance in bookish education and not enough in real-world experience. while i absolutely adore attending school and even doing homework and taking tests, it didn't do me much good when i had to learn the politics of making a living.

 

There is no such thing as class inequality. Only different classes of work ethic. The lazy fucks cry "oppression" so they don't have to admit their own illigitimacy in this world.