Astrology and how it works

Can anyone here please explain how astrology works? I recently wrote something on the movement (chaotic actually) of planets and comets in our solar system and was curious as to how people think that astrology works. I'm not going to say whether I believe in astrology or not until (if) this discussion becomes worthwhile.
For those of you who do believe in astrology... what do you think of NASA crashing an object into a comet? What about space exploration and the colonization of other planets?

 

another non committal but i hope genuinely open minded querent. weeeell, daniel, there would be many views on this and noone can say they know exactly how it works. it's sacred knowledge that appears and reappears in ancient cultures all around the world with similar recurring themes and archetypes appearing in societies that had no connection. be4 we forgot all this stuff there used to be a strong and natural association between people and the night sky, which doesnt exist in modern urban culture. links between celestial events and events on earth were more obvious then than they 4 us 2day. links between celestial cycles and cycles on earth were also better understood then.

my own view is that the external universe and one's internal mind are intercahngeable entities: one is a correspondence or reflection of the other. this isn't a cause and effect relationship. the cycles of the planets and the stars mirror the cycles of our lives here, without one causing, or being at the effect of, the other. an astrology chart gives u a pictorial view of how these planetary cycles and relationships existed for that one unrepeatable moment when u were born. by extension, it is also a pictorial view of the individual because of the correspondence between celestial events and earthly affairs that i mentioned above. the planets represent different principles: i can't go into what each planet represents here, but if u r really interested u can find this out on the web easily 4 urself. read as an entire story the horoscope can tell u where a person has come from, what their intentions are in being incarnated here, and where they seek to go. it can also show u what kind of personal tools and resources that individual has or will develop anew in order to fulfill those intentions: to what degree they will be mental, emotional, intuitive, or sensation based. this is largely revealed in the horoscope through the relationships between the planets, and the angles that the planets form to one another. it is also signified in the signs and houses the planets fall within. u can also read a person's possible obstacles, attachments, addictions and complications from the relationship between, say for example, the moon and the outer planets. these interpretations are based on the science of harmonics with mathematics seen as being the language that can quantify the connection between celestial events and earth bound events. some angular relationships are harmonious, others are not. but moreover, i reckon the zodiac and its 12 signs show u the different pathways to enlightment. u choose which path u want 2 go down, what u seek 2 learn and how u will try 2 learn that with each path a valid road to discovery and fullfillment.

there are, like i said, many views about all this. i 4 one would be interested in hearing other people's ideas.

 

ooh interesting hello...

Well ive always somehow known that planets influence our lives. I was shocked when i first heard someone say that astrology might not be true, that planets were just hunks of rock and gas out there with nothing on them(or whatever...im not very scientific, but you get the picture.) So i started reading as much as i could about the subject, and now know i was right all along

Its obvious that planets can have a physical effect on the Earth(the tides, and animals breeding patterns being controlled by the moon) So actually everyone admits that planets have the power to influence the Earth. And for something as great as that, who are we to say the limit of it? It seems perfectly reasonable to me to take it further, and to say that the planets affect us too(also earth animals) Also, if we look at the power of our own planet...the healing power of plants and minerals etc, we can see that the orbs of our solar system are not just hunks of rock. Why would Earth be the only planet with power? That seems a tad egotistical to me, science aside.

So anyway, yes im a firm believer. In answer to your question-how does it work?...well thats extremely difficult to answer seeing as we have not yet invented anything with the power to measure these forces. We are dealing with something that is beyond the physical. It is infact the metaphysical action that produces the physical reaction that is us(if youre followin me) It seems logical to me that a higher force is involved when it comes to the Earth(what we call God) and this is generally accepted. In accepting this what we are actually saying is that everything physical is produced by(or is in touch with) something which is beyond, or higher than the physical-we are accepting the intangible. So it is certainly not hard for me to accept astrology as truth.

Anyway ive rambled, and probably not made much sense:-S I think ill come back later, when ive thought about this more. I think theres a lot of truth in what James said about our minds being in tune with the planets...I think it is our souls(not our brains or our bodies-the intangible part of us that makes us capable of much higher things) that are in tune with these forces. But i certainly need to think about that idea that it is infact not a cause and effect thing, that maybe its just a sort of association...and so i shall return later

Interesting question though

Love-Maxi.Xx

 

Ps-(just read the bottom of the original post) I think colonisation of other planets will never happen. I also believe that scientists sometimes think they know a lot more than they actually do, and that messing with these things(like the comet) is not a good idea. There are some things we are not meant to know(at least for now)...we were put here on the earth for a reason(or did we put ourselves here?)

Anyway, my main justification for these feelings is the state of our own planet. We have made so many mistakes down here-the planet we were given(or that we chose) to look after...its seems ridiculous and sad to me that we are spending money putting things in the sky, when our own planet is dying.

Love-Maxi.Xx

 

A connection with the night sky? Do you mean our use of the stars for navigation, the architecture and style of various cultures, or something else entirely?

So you're saying that either all thoughts are predetermined or that our perception of thing alters reality. Right? I don't think it can be the latter as you said that our thoughts and the orbit and rotation of planets and stars mirror the cycle of our lives. Fate then?

Well... early humans couldn't see to many of the planets. I think we started seeing distant planets (within our solar system, we can't see any others yet) less than 300 - 400 years ago. As for stars... what we see now is what happened to those stars X years ago. Consider that light moves one AU (the average distance between the Earth and Sun) in about eight seconds (The time it takes for light to reach our planet)... some of the stars we see are in different positions. Granted, that's not the easiest thing to notice because of their distance... but believe me, what we're seeing right now is what happened X years (X could be well over a thousand) years ago to those stars.

You mean fate?

Is it possible for me to get some equations and their sources?

 

Planets are either metals, rocks, or gases. Nothing on them? Well that depends. Half of the terrestrial planets are to hot (and to cold) to sustain any life form that we know of right now. The planet Earth is the only one capable of handling complex life right now but we're doing work on Mars. I'm pretty sure they already found bacterial life (or single celled organisms as bacteria is pretty complex) on Mars.

What makes you right though? Any specific works out there or...?

Correction... the Sun and the Moon have an effect on us. The other planets don't. Gravity becomes weaker and weaker at a distance. I'll get the formula later if you want it.

We're human and we're studying the universe. Sure we don't know much about everything yet... but we can still make educated guesses and have theories. A lot of things can be measured.
As for plants and all of that stuff... not all planets have plants. Plants are complex organisms and the Jovial planets are in no way capable of handling things like that. The same applies to Mercury and Venus. We are looking for other planets (We'll be launching the Terrestrial Planet Finder (TPF in 2014)) that have an Earth like atmosphere and are able to sustain life.

Metaphysical = Can be measured and all of that stuff... just not all of it right now. Anyway, I don't believe in god or gods.

Huzzah for the string theory. Except... all that stuff can be physically messed with.

Why not? The colonization of Mars will most likely happen within the next 150 years. Space travel will probably be a normal thing within the next 50 - 75 years. Now that people can be put in a sort of stasis... we suspect that people will be able to be put to sleep for hundreds of years and survive with no brain/tissue damage at all.

Sure we think we know a lot some of the time. Sure things get disproved every once in a while. But why aren't we supposed to know everything? What's wrong with knowledge? And I believe that we weren't put here for a reason (or put ourselves here). Primordial soup... it's what's for dinner.

Investments. We're putting money into the planet right now anyway.

 

Let's assume that the planets somehow affect earth in the sorts of ways that these people would have us believe. These effects must be evenly distributed - i.e. the planets can't influence each person specifically; they must have the same gross effect on each human. Therefore there must be some mechanism by which this gross overall effect is translated according to each human's birth date/place or whatever. I can't imagine how this mechanism could work... It must be a 'per-person' thing, and the only people who it affects are those who believe in astrology...

Any astrologers care to explain how the planets acheive this differential effect on the population? It seems rather interesting!

 

danny youre being way too material darling. You say that "planets are gases, metals...blah" but i say thats just like saying that all people are is a body. Yes, thats what it APPEARS to be, because thats the physical manifestation...look ive only just woken up, but will explain more later.

 

yes. research pythagoras. also read percy seymour.

 

sorry for the double posting of this. i do boo-boo

yes that plus much more. the fact that we as a culture r quite unconnected from the night sky is demonstrated in ur choice of possible links. what i mean is the way nature based cultures use the night sky to expplain the perennial mysteries of 'where do i come from?', 'why am i here?', 'is there a god?', 'is material existense real?'. in our culture such questions are considered the exclusive purview of metaphysics or theology but in say, the australian aboriginal culture, it was ordinary knowledge known to and passed down from generations of initiated men or initiated women (depending on ur sex). another connection was the timing of rituals with events in the night sky and also of course the transits of the sun (the equinoxes and solstices). this connection is both literal and mythological imho.

thoughts are not predetermined in the manner of an automaton because this does not allow 4 the agency of free will. as i said (and this is my own opinion btw daniel not astrology's official position so please don't give me 2 much of a hard time about what i believe cos i'm only just one little person not a movement or institution) the relationship is not cause and effect. ur mind is a representation of the universe: vast spaces that defy quantification, absence of time, ability to create ideationally in one's mind's eye and then manifest idea into matter through the energies of intention, focus and willpower. in turn the brain is the material represntation of the mind in my view. all that exists in material form thus has a correspondence in the non-material and vice-versa: its ideational reflection in another state. the two, the universe and ur mind i mean here, operate as co-authors or co-creators of experience that finds correspondence in two different conceptual states. that's about the best way i can put it.

all this is true daniel (except i don't think the fixed stars are moving relative to the earth because the distances r so vast: it's the tilt and wobble of the earth on its own axis that creates the precession of the equinoxes. this creates the illusion that the fixed stars r moving: consequently, because of this precession, the point of the (northern hemisphere) summer equinox, ie 1 degree aries, moves 1 degree every 70 years). it's important to mention, and i forgot to say this in the first posting, that a horoscope is geo-centric. this means that light travelling to earth from deep space is only relevant to the horoscope as an event occuring on earth now. before the discovery of the post-saturnian planets there were thought to be only 7 planets, which corresponded to the days in the week and created a neat and symmetrical system of belief. the discovery of uranus upset the ice cream cart and astrology, as a science, thenceforth split into two movements: astrology and astronomy. the fact that the outer planets were not known before then does not mean that their effects did not exist or were not real, (in the same sense that gravity was real before newton discovered it). there effects were real in my view but their influence and energies were seen as being manifest through the existing matrix of 7 planets: saturn took on the energies of uranus, mars pluto and jupiter neptune. i see where u r coming from daniel and i suggest u read someone like percy seymour rather than ask someone like me. he speaks ur language.

no. i mean that the angular relationship between the moon and an outer planet describes a situation of conflict and tension between the two energies that the moon and the outer planet represent. for instance, moon square saturn describes the tension that will arise when the limiting principles of saturn apply to the vulnerable emotional aspects of the moon's representation, giving rise to what many people experience as separation anxiety (that which provides emotional comfort and security is limited or denied). i have this aspect myself. what it meant 4 me was not that my fate is forever blighted because of this and i can never have a relationship because of the unbearable fear it will end: it used to be that way mind u, but rather, because of the extreme suffering this created 4 me it stirred me to explore my mind in order i understand what was at the source of my emotional insecurity and try and deal with this, or, forever suffer at the hands of it. the solution to the problem had its own onus in my actions and my willpower to overcome it. imho, fate is for victims.

yes. see pythagoras. also read percy seymour.

 

Infact no ill explain now, because youve managed to annoy me

You dont seem to have thought DEEPLY about my words and have only taken them at face value. Yes i know that GRAVITY decreases as it gets further away. But if you link my idea of planets having an effect on the Earth with what i also said about there being things we are incapable of measuring, then perhaps i wasnt talking about gravity at all...perhaps i was talking about something UNDISCOVERED. Gravity was undiscovered once yknow

Im sure i can safely speak for James and tell you youve totally misinterpreted his words too. You assumed that the connection we have with the outer planets is physical. Again you didnt read carefully, its obvious were talking about something that cannot be seen(again, there ARE a lot of things that cannot be seen, whether youre willing to admit it or not)

I will return later to finish my explanation(very tired) What i will say is, youre obviously a very Earthy person, and so we cannot comdemn you for that. We are all here for different purposes, and your ideas are just as valid ours. But i hope you will try and think a bit more carefully about the possibility of there being things unseen, misunderstood, undiscovered. Also about the possibility(or to me the damn certainty) of there being a higher force involved in the making of this world. I cannot understand how someting so detailed, so miraculous, can be mistaken for random chaos. Everything is circular. Planets, their orbit, molecules, time(although thats another matter) And this is just coincidence?

Thanks again and i hope you keep an open mind. Its good that you even asked a question on the issue that so many others simply dismiss...i shall return later.

Love-Maxi.Xx

 

ooh sorry james, didnt know youd posted!

 

sorry if this is a multiple posting. i buggered up the formatting and now i'm having trouble with the server.

Originally Posted by DanielH26P

yes that plus much more. the fact that we as a culture r quite unconnected from the night sky is demonstrated in ur choice of possible links. what i mean is the way nature based cultures use the night sky to expplain the perennial mysteries of 'where do i come from?', 'why am i here?', 'is there a god?', 'is material existense real?'. in our culture such questions are considered the exclusive purview of metaphysics or theology but in say, the australian aboriginal culture, it was ordinary knowledge known to and passed down from generations of initiated men or initiated women (depending on ur sex). another connection was the timing of rituals with events in the night sky and also of course the transits of the sun (the equinoxes and solstices). this connection is both literal and mythological imho.

thoughts are not predetermined in the manner of an automaton because this does not allow 4 the agency of free will. as i said (and this is my own opinion btw daniel not astrology's official position so please don't give me 2 much of a hard time about what i believe cos i'm only just one little person not a movement or institution) the relationship is not cause and effect. ur mind is a representation of the universe: vast spaces that defy quantification, absence of time, ability to create ideationally in one's mind's eye and then manifest idea into matter through the energies of intention, focus and willpower. in turn the brain is the material represntation of the mind in my view. all that exists in material form thus has a correspondence in the non-material and vice-versa: its ideational reflection in another state. the two, the universe and ur mind i mean here, operate as co-authors or co-creators of experience that finds correspondence in two different conceptual states. that's about the best way i can put it.

all this is true daniel (except i don't think the fixed stars are moving relative to the earth because the distances r so vast: it's the tilt and wobble of the earth on its own axis that creates the precession of the equinoxes. this creates the illusion that the fixed stars r moving: consequently, because of this precession, the point of the (northern hemisphere) summer equinox, ie 1 degree aries, moves 1 degree every 70 years). it's important to mention, and i forgot to say this in the first posting, that a horoscope is geo-centric. this means that light travelling to earth from deep space is only relevant to the horoscope as an event occuring on earth now. before the discovery of the post-saturnian planets there were thought to be only 7 planets, which corresponded to the days in the week and created a neat and symmetrical system of belief. the discovery of uranus upset the ice cream cart and astrology, as a science, thenceforth split into two movements: astrology and astronomy. the fact that the outer planets were not known before then does not mean that their effects did not exist or were not real, (in the same sense that gravity was real before newton discovered it). there effects were real in my view but their influence and energies were seen as being manifest through the existing matrix of 7 planets: saturn took on the energies of uranus, mars pluto and jupiter neptune. i see where u r coming from daniel and i suggest u read someone like percy seymour rather than ask someone like me. he speaks ur language.

no. i mean that the angular relationship between the moon and an outer planet describes a situation of conflict and tension between the two energies that the moon and the outer planet represent. for instance, moon square saturn describes the tension that will arise when the limiting principles of saturn apply to the vulnerable emotional aspects of the moon's representation, giving rise to what many people experience as separation anxiety (that which provides emotional comfort and security is limited or denied). i have this aspect myself. what it meant 4 me was not that my fate is forever blighted because of this and i can never have a relationship because of the unbearable fear it will end: it used to be that way mind u, but rather, because of the extreme suffering this created 4 me it stirred me to explore my mind in order i understand what was at the source of my emotional insecurity and try and deal with this, or, forever suffer at the hands of it. the solution to the problem had its own onus in my actions and my willpower to overcome it. imho, fate is for victims.

yes. research pythagoras. also read percy seymour

 

the other planets do have an effect on us, many believe such as percy, because of solar winds that influence the energies the luminaries transmit 2 earth.

y do i get a feeling of being entrapped? how about, if ur more than a boy with an ego to service, u tell us what u want? genuuinely curious, or just looking to pass some idle time with a wind-up?

 

sorry? do u mean me?

i'm not sure i quite understand ur question jim. but let me ask u a question: y can't the planets influence each person specifically? the sun does. i can stay in the sun all day and not get burnt but my brother can't. some get skin cancer from the sun's rays while other people don't.

 

The planets achieve a differential effect because they pass through different sections of the sky. Thats what astrologys all about! Or did i miss something?

 

Something undiscovered... perhaps you can share details on what you think it is? I know you can't give me specifics, but a general idea would be nice.

There are a lot of things we can't see... yet. But that's why we study things tirelessly .

Detailed? Do you mean the surface of planets, life, and all of that stuff? Consider that our planet is around 4.5 billion years old. That's a lot of time for things to evolve and change.
As for why things such as planets are circular...gravity and spinning. I think they tested Einstein's theory of relativity by sending a few metallic spheres in to space and then brought them back to see which one's shape got altered the most. Gravity + Rotation = Spherical shape
Check out the Jovian planets, they're not exactly circular. Because of the rotation speed they send their gasses out to the top and bottom of themselves. That's why they look "squished".
As for the orbit of planets... they're not circles. They orbit in eliptical patterns. Check out Kepler's Laws.
Molecules? What about them? Do you mean their shape or their very existance?
As for time... time is a complicated subject. The faster you move the slower everything else looks. If you go faster than the speed of light you go backwards in time. The slower you go the faster everything around you moves (or looks to move). If you stop moving then you get stuck in time but everything else moves relativly quickly.

 

Well consider their knowledge. By looking at early models of the universe you can see that they didn't understand the universe to much. A lot of science that was "understood" and "known" in the past has changed. Yesterday's magic is today's science.

You still have free will with predetermined thoughts. You have the power to "veto" them before they happen. That's the difference between people with and without mental disorders. Some people can't control themselves and always act on instinct. Do they lack free will?

Well consider this... what happens if you die? Does the universe die? Absence of time? I'm not sure I understand that.
As for the latter... sure. Those are chemical reactions inside the brain. We can affect and alter our environment. Are you telling me that when we affect something around us the universe changes to reflect that? Or that when something in the universe happens that our body/brain changes to reflect that?

Do you believe we've always existed? That's the only way I see what you're saying making any sense (more than me ). The cosmos have existed before us... we're babies compared to what's out there in space. How can we have affected it (or it us) before the first human was alive?

Everything is moving relative to us as we are moving relative to everything else. Sure most things don't affect us... but they're still a part of the universe and therefore move while we move. It's pointless to say that though.
So early astrology was wrong?
Who is Percy Seymour? I'll try and get in contact with him

Nature versus nurture... . Do you believe that this deals with the planet or genetics? And if you believe that the planets alter genetics... what are your thoughts on genetic engineering and designer babies? Things will be made as we see fit, nature will not run it's due course.

Do you mean his works on the movement of celestial bodies? I wrote a paper on that. He failed to account for things like chaotic motion (chaos theory), he was using a old model of the universe, etc. I don't think his theories of planetary motion are a big factor in modern day astronomy.
As for Percy Seymour... I'll read his stuff later.

 

Solar winds effect us because the sun is so close to us. Most things in the universe (hell, the things in our galaxy) are to far to have any real effect on us.

I'm genuinely curious. If I can find a model of astrology that works with modern science I could easily believe astronomy. I'm always open to new ideas... I just like explanations. I have plenty of things to do that help me out if I ever become bored.

 

Hey again Daniel,

Dictionary.coms definition of the word "elliptical" is "rounded, like an egg". An ellipse is just a slightly adjusted form of the circle, its still works in the same way.

Yes, perhaps youre right and the world has had time to "evolve". But the fact still remains that the universe is a marvel(cant think of a better word! still v.tired)...everything works...something as tiny as a leaf or a mouse has so much work inside it. Also, if there is no higher force, and life was created by a series of appropriate conditions in the atmosphere...by heat and chemicals or whatever(again, my apologies for the lack of precise knowledge on these theories...they never really interested me.) then how come we are unable to create life this way ourselves? How come, in order to create life, we must use parts of what has already been created? If there is no God, we would be God, or the only beings worthy of that title. Why then cant we even make the tiniest things ourselves...we cant even make a weed...without using what has already lived?

Also you ask me what the undiscovered(or the as yet unmeasured scientifically) could be. The answer to this is already in both mine and james posts....youre bringing me round in circles, as it were What im talking about is that influence, or that connection, with the planets. A force...like gravity, only not.

Anyway, weve gone way off topic(partly my fault) any more questions about astrology?

Love-Maxi.Xx