Astrology and how it works

P.s-it appears that your explanation for everything is physical, or related to what we already know. Your answer to my reasoning that life has a plan because everything is circular, was that it was to do with gravity(which we can measure) But what about all the things that youve already admitted we cannot measure? It seems to me that, although the planets ARE physically balls of gas or whatever, there must be more to it than that. Theyd have no purpose...theyd just be there littering the universe. The difference between me and you, and probably the reason for the difference in our views, is that i look beyond the physical. I look beyond what can be seen with my(physical) eye. Planets without meaning would be like human bodies without souls...

The pueblos teach their children about the sun by saying-"the sun has two lights, one that we see, and one that is unseen. The one that we see is so bright in order to prevent our unready eyes from seeing the unseen, which is truth". I believe that this unseen force is the force which influences us, and it comes from all the planets. But with mine and your views on matters such as science and spirituality directly opposed i fear well never be able to agree on the matter of astrology, as it takes a mind which is willing to accept the intangible to agree about its value.

Anyway i hope ive been clear enough and havent confused the issue.

Love-maxi.Xx

 

If you study astronomy (specifically radio and x-ray) you'll notice how chaotic and violent this universe is. All the destruction in it... we can not say chaos once we understand how everything goes though.

We've already created life inside a lab (in a test tube) using the basic elements of the early planet, electricity, and nothing else. Living matter was made from non-living matter by scientists before. I'm looking for the name of the scientist and experiment right now.

Genetic engineering. Imagine us learning all of that stuff this quickly though. If they start messing with things made in a lab... I'm pretty sure we can make a human once we find out the necessary genetic code.

Sorry, I was just looking for a name

 

Miller-Urey experiment. Creating life in a lab using non-living compounds.
Just look that up and you'll find what I'm talking about.

 

The science behind astrology, as has been previously stated, but I'm stating it again anyway (because that was the question), is that what lies within the mind also lies without. Everything you experience helps to create who you are. From the Sun to these little words right here, without experience you are nothing.

Astrology is the science of what these massive bodies inhabiting the space around us represent within us. They are focused upon due to their large mass, under the assumption that the greater the mass the greater the purpose/meaning. Their purpose/meaning changes with their changing relationship to one another as they travel through the sky.

There really isn't any discrepancy in the predetermination of fate. Because what is observed is, in effect, one's own mind, it is both one's own free will and their predetermined fate.

Science is way behind reality. Reality got a fourteen billion or so year head start on humanity, though. And while you have to be careful with astrology these days, as it has become fodder for people with self-esteem issues, I do believe we inhereted some wisdom on the matter from the ancients who weren't so flippant about it.

Astrology is a very personal issue, obviously, and as much as a serious student should be informed on its history, they should take into account what each planet means personally to him/herself, because it will mean exactly what it means. It doesn't matter what the planets, and what they represent, mean to anyone else, because, due to the varying positions of the planets, they can have no definite meaning other than what meaning we personally ascribe to them.

I also find it fun to ponder what other people represent. My reasoning being that maybe those closest to us are offshoots of ourselves, and that they are embodiments of aspects of our astrological charts, as well. Say you know a Capricorn and happen to have Mars in Capricorn. Perhaps that person is the living embodiment of your Mars in Capricorn, and you can further explore your own chart by exploring his/hers.

 

So astrology is then dependant on each person's interpertation of astrology? So it has no set meaning as is dependant on how each person explains it? Sounds cool. It's like religion... a way of explaining the universe.

 

Have just read the thread through again to check i didnt miss anything...it appears you have the truth already in your subconscious dan I found it interesting that you said to James "yesterdays magic is todays science"...So why cant what you see as todays "magic" be tomorrows science? One day not too soon astrology will be a lot more recognised as fact...that i do know

Love-Maxi.Xx

 

Well that's that sort of what it means

Anyway... astrology... astronomy... biology... psychology... three out of four of those models work with each other. One doesn't. This is why I'd like more information on X. I'd be fun to try and tie it in with those other two. But considering our interaction with the universe... I'm not to sure that astrology will ever be accepted as fact. No offense.

Cthulhu fhtagn!

 

Where did that come from? You should study the incredible links and consitancies in astrology. Many experiments have been done that show that planets in certain positions in the chart make people more likely to go into certain jobs, commit suicide, or even commit murder. The reason that everyone doesnt follow this pattern is complex. Firstly no two people EVER have the same chart and ever will, seeing as even if the planets are in the same positions, they will be at different degrees, and so will have slightly altered effects. Also, people are NOT just animals influenced into automation by the planets. We have our higher selves, which can either overcome difficult aspects in the chart or be troubled by them. And so one person can go downhill, and will be more affected by negative planetary influences than others...The situations planets make for us are only what we make of them. In other words...a planet in a certain house will bring about a bad event in your life, lets say. YOU can either react postively, and overcome this challenge given to you...or you can react negatively. The whole system is so complex(like the universe...sorry!) that it is difficult to pin it all down as scientific fact. But i have faith that this will be done.

Xx

 

<--cannot see why those things cannot work togther. It would add strength to all of them.

 

Have you studied all of those? Biology tells us that are what determine our characteristics. Psychology talks about how the brain works to a certain extent. Astronomy and astrology don't really work well together from what I've seen so far. Astrology doesn't fit in to well with our current models of the others

 

Experiments such as?

So if I don't believe in the effects of astrology it doesn't affect me?

How can I react to them? The humans and planets are tied together, right? No free will then?

 

For jehovas sake will you just LISTEN!(grr) man, how many times...Anyone can see that that post was NOT saying that we do not have any power...i was doing the opposite. Read the posts through again and PLEASE try to find another meaning in there, im gettin sick of explainin, but i want you to understand! i really do

I cant remember names of the reasearches done about links, just remember reading about them. As youll know if youve done courses in psychology, more literary people have difficulty with facts, figures, and names of experiments:| and so i have no idea, i just know they were done.

My last post was not promoting the idea that we are powerless to change our fates-it was doing the exact opposite. We are given events, is what i said. Our reactions to these are our choice and ours alone.

Xx

 

I've already taken a course in Psychology. I just go with ideas and search for those online until I find what I was talking about

Sorry, I'm just working with what you tell me. You're saying that our minds and the universe are mirrors of each others... yet we can chose to change things, not react to them, etc. I want to know if that changes the universe at large or if changes in the universe make us do what we do.

Perhaps you should be clearer when you talk to me. I'm teh stupid and I have a hard time understanding some people :/. Seriously though, say what you mean. That way you won't have to repeat yourself.

So... astrology gives us events but doesn't affect our personality directly? Is that what you're saying?

 

that's really debatable and v condascending, like ur entire presentation so far. ur just measuring things with a western scientific model as the ideal and u r a cultural snob 2. how does astronomy quantify that?

what do u mean acting out a compulsion or something? in which case i'd say they don't lack free will they lack conscious control over their actions: like u r unable to stop being a show-off, this is not a lack of free will on ur part, it's a function of being an undergraduate. u'll may grow out of it and hence expand ur free will through acquiring further life experience possibly enabling u to see that the world exists in different ways besides purely scientific ones. possibly not. this is the free will i mean.

we don't die

yes. thats it exactly.

yes. that's it exactly

yes. not always in this form however.

that about us which has no material form was not always human and existed be4 humans existed.

i didn't ask 4 an explanation of relativity ta. i was answering ur remarks earlier about the fixed stars moving. u don't seem to know about or understand the precession of the equinoxes which is what my explanation refers 2. omg, is there something u didn't know?

he may not want to contact u.

that's not it at all. or at least its an oversimplification. if u had any kind of emotional connection with urself it may be possible to exchange ideas about things in a more than superficial way. astrologers call this a lack of water, or a saturn complex. i call it 2 much sugar.

who said he influences modern day astronomy? i'm talking about his influence of ancient astrology.

good. u do that.

 

Are you telling me that my saying the world is flat, not the center of the universe, etc is wrong? I think I'm right when I say those things. Don't you?

I'm not a cultural snob. I'm talking about early scientific models of the universe that go beyond any culture or nation. There's no need to insult me, I'm just trying present a decent arguement against astrology so that I can learn more about it. That way I might actually believe it (if there is enough research, data, "proof", and whatnot out there). I'm sorry if you find my using science as snobby.

Acting out of compulsion as in due to brain disorders (or a malfunction) they cannot stop themselves from doing things and don't think most things out.
I'm not being a show-off... If I was being a show-off I'd go deep into the mechanics of all of this and try to confuse everyone... I'm being as simple as possible in my explanation and arguement to ensure that everyone (not calling you guys stupid) can understand and participate.

I already have plenty of free will... unless your of the belief that everything we do is merely a reaction to events (which means that we're just cause and effect, no free will).

I'm assuming you mean spiritualy... because I can assure you that our physical bodies die.

So then free will doesn't exist. We're just the Earthly representation of the universe as a whole (sort of a paradox). Okay...

Of course. As Carl Sagan says... "we are star stuff."

Spirits then?

Okay. And then I divulged into movement a bit and corrected your saying that some things don't move relative to us because of their distance. But yeah... there's plenty I don't know. If I knew everything I wouldn't be discussing this right now.

I'm connected to myself emotionally. But that's what it comes down to. Which do you think determines our personality more? Nature or nurture?

I was talking about modern day astronomy... hence I thought you were speaking of his influence on modern day astronomy.

I think I got everything. I may have skipped one or two points by accident. If I did just tell me . Oh... and there is no need to insult me just because I have a different point of view than you do. We can be mature about this, can't we?

 

too much sugar...heheh...

 

I wish I could have a lot of sugar. I have to watch my weight though so sugar = no go.

 

Don't you think that its strange that according to astrologers the age of the pisces has dominated the past 2000 years? Strange because the symbol of the fish is used both for the sign of the pisces and for the greatest influence of the last 2000 years, christianity. We have just entered into a new age, the age of the aquarius, and look whats happening, there is mass confusion about religion, and the sea is becoming more powerful, its no coincidence, this was predicted well before astronomy even existed, they are two completely different sciences. One is old and spiritually based on wisdom and the other is new and based on technology and maths. I have great respect for both. Neither is wrong, it's just that one claims to be more dominant than the other. The year of the aquarius is about free thinking and spirituality and we are already seeing signs of this all over the world. Hopefully through this new age astrology and astronomy will be openly used along side eachother as two very credible forms of wisdom and information.

 

(quote)
i'm not sure i quite understand ur question jim. but let me ask u a question: y can't the planets influence each person specifically? the sun does. i can stay in the sun all day and not get burnt but my brother can't. some get skin cancer from the sun's rays while other people don't.
(end quote)

Exactly my point. The sun exerts the same force on you both (it must), but it affects you differently *because of you*. Who gets burned is a physiological matter, determined on earth at the moment the sunlight hits you both. The same must be true of astrology - whatever force you claim the planets exert on us must be the same for all people. So the 'reaction' of a person to this force is entirely dependant on themselves. As we already know, the only people who are influenced by this so-called force are believers, so we end up with a situation in which people are supposedly affected by a force from the stars, but the *actual effect* of this force on each person is consciously decided by that person. Can you say "placebo effect"?

To clarify: In the same way that your brother has fairer skin that you and therefore gets burned, you beleive in astrology and therefore you *perceive* the effects you expect to see. I defy you to point out any concrete example of astrology working - I know you won't, because that's not how it works, right? Just like 'magick' or whatever - no-one will say "ok, I'll cast a spell on you and they you'll see', because it only works (slightly ;P) for those who already believe.

 

and your answer to my explanation jim?....