Astrology and how it works

P.s-before you take me back to primary school, i do know that it us that move around the sun, not the other way around....Im talking about other planets...also, because we move around the sun forces reaching us from with ill pass through different sections of the sky..

Xx

 

from it will pass* grr

 

The Crusades, the Renaissance period, the Spiritual Revolution, the Boxer Rebellion, the Medieval Times, The Pagan Vikings, Rome, etc. Confusion in the realm of religion is not what I'd call a recent phenomena. It's been happening for well over 2,000 years now.

Christianity was the greatest influence in the past 2,000 years? Hmmm... maybe in the Western part of the world. Lets think about Africa, Asia, the Middle East, Native Americans, South Americans, etc too.

Doesn't seem so strange anymore, does it?

 

When i wish to discuss a friendly issue with fellow forumers i refraine from belittling people to get my points across, I don't think it's necessary, though your points do raise interesting conversation, your partronizing, " doesn't seem so strange now, does it?" is very off putting, but as you've raised the question, i'll try to answer it, It's a matter of respect.

We are in the process of a change of age, since 1997 we have started to shift into the age of the aquarius, the age of the pisces is giving away to it as we speak, Which i think is responsible for the decline in religious followers, more and more people are searching within themselves for guidence, more people have converted from christanity to faiths like buddism, which teach self respect rather than eternal pain in hell if you cross the faith. This coincides with the belief that we are entering a new spiritual era which also welcomes free speech, i'm sure there is a very logical and scientific explanation to back your theories up, but these changes were written about over 2000 years ago, with no technology. Christianity is only 2000 years old, i think it has influenced more people over that period than any other other religion, we in the west have churches of christian faith in more countries than any other religion, the western world has accelerated during these times, i know this can also explained through modern day recordings and science, but it was written ago many years bc, by astrologers all over the world. You spoke of the spiritual revolution, which one?

hinduism/buddhism- The age of Gemini gave way to the age of taurus, the age of intellegence, first signs of wrting occured, ideas could be recorded on stone tablets. the power of writing compelled all who read it to believe, it was so powerful. The first widely used religion was born with it. The oldest structures on earth are fertility goddess temples on the island of Malta honoring the annual cycle of life. Their beginning and end between 4400 -2200 BCE holds a remarkable coincidence or synchronicity with the Movement of the Age of Taurus.

Judism and islamic faiths - taurus gave way to the age of aries (2220 BC to 60 BC), early settlements and agriculture are formed as more people are attracted to places of worship as stable religious structure developes.

(stolen from smartieuk)
Then around 200ad not 0ad as most would think, came the age of piscies. and here we see the birth of christianity. by this time we have well developed settlements and population increases dramatically because of such. this population increase, and expansion of ideas calls on a new religious ideology to be created and so christianity is born... more of a tool than a religion, it places only small socially acceptable boundries on it believers( in comparisson), and so premotes growth. with growth comes power and the excelleration of the male ego. it is this ego which has been responsible for most of the attrocities we have seen in the age of piscies. when you start owning things you need to protect them and so this propogational tool(christianity) was perfect for the acceleration in technology. the last 2000 years have given so much in terms of technical evolution. and i belive it is largely due to the need for better ways to "defend".

which brings us to now.. the end of an era... a period of change as the global conciousness readies itself for another shift. and by all accounts it should be for the better...

we are rapidly descending/ascending toward the age of aquarius and it seems to be building a lot of energy.

yes its hippy psyco-bable.. but believe what you will.
__________________

 

i think that we all have the right idea,but maybe were focusing on the wrong things? there are so many things that can determine what will happen....we dont know.... we have technology, astrology, us in general can destroy earth , or we can save it and we can do those hings by many many different emans, i have a migrane thinking about it...i need to go and smoke

 

Sorry if you took it that way. It just meant that now that you have some more examples it's a lot clearer. It wasn't meant to come off as insulting or anything... if I wanted to insult you I'd make it painfully obvious

But how many people actually stay with those religions after their teen years? The majority of converts and atheists tend to be teenagers. And how many people who convert actually follow those teachings well and do exactly what they say?

When countries go to other ones and occupy them for extended periods of times they tend to bring their culture along with them. Note the history and powerful nations in Christianity. Now imagine if those stood pagan how they originally were. The same things would happen. Of course it has influenced large amounts of people around the world... but the major religions are something like 1/3 each in the world.

Considering the small number of people who could actually read and write... you have to realize that most of them were very like minded, they most likely already thought that. Reading and writing skills were usually taught in a church to it's higher up members. People who were raised like that. If it was given to someone from another culture. Not everyone who could read believed in what the writing said... but most people who learned to at least read already believed that.

Teaching the public how to read and write is a fairly recent thing.

Also... I think the modern written word was invented (our current day writing style) by the people of Babylon. But before that there existed the pictorial words (?) of the cavemen. They used that for various things.

Agriculture... technology. Settlements... probably brought together by war. People have come together because of those things for quite some time now. 2220 BC - 60 BC wouldn't be the first time happened. Cavemen used to come together and "write on walls". I forget when people started to bury their own... but it was well before written history.

Islam came after Christianity. We've already had "large" civilizations before this. Large civilizations were around before Judaism. Expansion has already happened. A lot of Christianity hurts the growth of science. Astronomy, medicine, physics, etc. We might be way further was it not for Christianity.

I almost forgot about that. Anyway... look up anti-clericalism, the Crusades, and the other things I listed. You'll find plenty of spiritual revolutions have happened during the course of our planets history.

 

Daniel,

I find you VERY insulting and degrading to-religions, faiths, young people and non-western cultures. Sorry if you didnt mean to come across this way, but to me you did.

You asked if there was anything you could read on the matters weve been discussing(you didnt? Well, you should have done.) I recommend to you Saint Exuperys The Little Prince. Yes, its a childrens book. No, its not scientific. But hidden in this little book are so many truths about life and the universe that i think would be beneficial to you. I have a french version, although i believe its possible to get a copy in English. If you do not read this(i strongly suspect you wont) then i leave you with a quote from the little french fox, who says-"l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux", or "anything essential is invisible to the eyes."

I hope you have gained something from our(sometimes lengthy) posts. I have explained to you all i can.

-Maxi.Xx

 

Is cool brother, sorry i bit your head off.

I didnt specify how many stick with it, i was just stating that people look for there own spiritual guidance these days.

You're missing the point i think, It wasnt a pagan era, it was a predominantly christian era due to the influence of the pisces age, even the symbol for christianity and pisces is a fish. I'm not talking about the whole planet, i'm talking about our own ancient astrologers that have influenced and predicted our future and future events of the planet, I'm talking about knowing about things happening before they have even begun with no technology brother.

This only strenthens what i had already said, with reading and writing came religion, and with the recordings the religions became more structered and powerful, the beginning of yet a new era.

Only a recent thing, the year of the aquarium will bring free thinking and self spiritualty, as we're becoming more educated in the masses, we realise that heaven and hell were metaphors, we lose the fear and learn for ourselves, even the bible itself admits this. it talks of a new era and new beliefs, we had been prepared for this era over 2000 years ago.

What is your point? Sorry i don't get that. You could say that shakespear invented it or the celtic pagans or latin europeans, They've all contributed.

yes probably. The wars were also probably influenced by the era or ages. I do understand the evolution process, i just believe that we're influenced by the ages or eras.

again you've stepped off the point that, christianity started at the beginning of the fish age. we weren't ready to be be further in the evolution process, the influences over the years have kept us back, more credit to the fact that you can't change the written future that astrologers have written, once more 2000 years ago, please comment on this.

[/QUOTE] I know this, and they were all forseen by astrologers, nostradamus predicted world war 2 was going to be started in the west of europe by a man called hifter, you can't tell me that this isn't strange. Please don't ignore this comment, its nearly evidence that astrology is real.

 

it's interesting 2 c how this conversation has broadened out from its initial assault by hard science on astrology: if that wasn't the intention daniel, that certainly was the effect (on me anyway). i don't like 2 be interrogated by someone about the scientific validity of my astrological beliefs when hard science is not my forte and i feel i cant defend what i believe in when an obvious expert such as yourself grills me. it serves to make me feel inadequate and i get pissed off and defensive. i think that's only natural. while this is totally my reaction, and my problem, u may notice daniel that people won't like u very much if u adopt a combative and rapid fire questioning approach that u have here. alot of people, who u otherwise might have engaged, won't want to talk 2 u or help u understand anything about their views or be available or open to be persauded by u about anything, which u say is what truly motivates ur being here. now that u r engaging on other aspects of astrology: and considering other contexts i note u r not on firm ground, either, as i imagine, this is not your forte. that's ok. noone wants to show u up 4 ur beliefs or ur pov and make u feel stupid if u can't argue it or defend it as well as the next guy when the next guy might be eric hobsbawm or someone.

it's difficult to talk in absolutes like this "greatest influence" i know, but ok let's think about it. looking at the history of virtually all the countries of the socalled 'third world' u list here, it is a story of fairly brutal colonisation of their land by christian explorers and colonists. for example, south america, which was transformed from a continent of many nature based pagan religions to today being almost homogenously roman catholic, is so by virtue of its colonisation by european christians. africa tells a similar story too, especially the further south and away from the islamic heart of the middle east u go: here the hand of christian colonisation is everywhere (the church of england and the catholic church both look to africa as a great source of new converts). christianity's influence in the middle east competes with the other great monotheist religions: islam and judaism, but even so the crusades of yesteryear and the current 'war on terorism' today speak of the clash of christianity against the opposing faith of islam, and it's not hard to see who, in terms of military power, is the 'greatest influence' here. so christianity's influence there can't be understated either. in asia it's a different story i think. a country such as thailand, which is one of the very few countries in the world that has never been invaded and occupied by a foreign power, is an example of a place relatively untouched by christian values and this shows in their culture which is remarkably insulated and 'other' for westerners. very few places like thailand exist on the tourist routes of 2day. as far as native americans go, i'll mention here, the australian aborigines instead, their modern plight is a direct result of contact with the christian invaders. 2 day very few aborigines practise traditonal dreaming ways and most aborigines where they do believe, are christian (although islam is becoming popular among the young men). i can't speak for the american indians. all in all i think to deny or downplay the influence of christianity in the last 2000 years would be in error. this is not 2 say of course that other competing cultures and faiths don't exist or are any less important because they aren't dominant. of course that's not true either.

 

...? Can you show me an example or two of that? I'm not being at all insulting...

I don't remeber you reccomending my reading that... but I'll look into it. The problem is that I have really busy days. These past few days have been my only real break from school and training.

 

I'm sure that's not new. It's usually teenagers that look into more non-mainstream religions though. Hell though... I'm looking into Nordic religions myself

So our own ancient astrologers are all from the west? If you look into the psychology of fortune telling and psychic readings you'll find that it's not always hard to predict things if you talk about them very broadly. Take Jules Verne for examples.

Now you missed the point . Most people who learned to read and write were already like minded upper class/religious elite. It's not that they were compelled into believing what they did by reading, it's that they grew up being told that there is no other right answer than that.

Christianity influences 1/3 of the people on this planet. What about the other 2/3? And... which version of the Bible are you using? Anyway, it looks that the further we move from god and to atheism the more free thinking we become.

Just clearing up that writing was created well before the dates given.

Well for that we'd have to see the reason for each war. Most were religious, expansion, or the stealing of supplies.

Can't we? Look into early Christianity and how long it took for it to become accepted.
Okay.. say we can't. Are you telling me that you believe in fate? Either everything is predetermined or they wrote the future for us. Which is it?

I'm fairly certain we can though. With our new weapons we can easily change the surface of the planet (kill everyone and most everything).

I'm not going to ignore it. If you can get me a history book telling us exactly what Nostradamus predicted I'll look into it. There are to many false predictions "made by" Nostradamus out on the Internet. The 9/11 one for example... fake. Nostradamus never mentioned it.

Also... if you looked at the methods of divination that Nostradamus used you'll notice that he was more into the alchemical systems.

 

It's no problem. If I'm pissing people off I'll tone it down a bit or try to make what I say more politically correct. I just think in terms of science and mathematics though. I suck a bit with languages so I try to work with what I know.

As for my being an expert... I'm not.

Here is ammunition for you guys to fire:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

--Hamlet (I forgot who says it that)

 

hamlet says it to the ghost.
we say in australia:
"there are more things in heaven and earth than u can poke a stick at!"

 

hahahahahahahahaha. I'm an idiot. I just realized how painfully obvious it was to find out who said that. Horatio is Hamlet's closest friend. Hamlet said that to Horatio when they were talking about his seeing his father (I think). I just put the pieces of the play together, I havn't read Hamlet in years but it's obvious from who said it (due to the plot) and to who it was direct (due to the name Horatio in it).

I'm not calling you an idiot.

 

i like the bit the spirit says to hamlet:

I am thy father's spirit,
Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night,
And for the day confined to fast in fires,
Till the foul crimes done in my days of nature
Are burnt and purged away.

oh shakespeare's good.

 

My personal favourite Hamlet quote(jus thought id join in

What is is a man, if the chief good and market of his time, be but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more. Surely he that made us with such large discourse, looking before and after, gave us not these capabilities and god-like reason, to fust in us unused.

Also, -the lady doth protest too much, methinks(snigger)

Xx

 

ha ha, this thread is amazing, it has everything, astrological/astronomical questions, religion, history, literature. It questions the future, refers to shakespear, nostradamus, Jules verne. it's a very good debate. I don't expect anybody to change their views on their beliefs because a couple of people in a forum have done a little research, it's healthy to have opposing arguments in any subject, I've learned a few things about astrology myself whilst taking place in this debate.

There is no doubt in my mind that astronomy is the greatest study of our universe and space, i absolutely love it, its a wonderful science. But.... It is the study of location and movenment of space and time, this is where the similarities of atrology and astronomy lie, i'm sure you already know this. my point is this. astronomy is a purly scientific practice, the study of gases, elements, nebulae, distance etc...Astrologists believe not in fate, but that predictions of the future can be made, and yes, there is a huge difference, Nostradamus's predictions have never been proven to be wrong, only that we may have mis-interprated them, you try to tell the future one thing about the year 2500 and i bet you find it very difficult to predict one thing, its a fact that he said hifter would start ww2(there is speculation that he was referring to a river in france('Hister' was the classical name for the river Danube), i think he chose a very close sounding river if that be the case, there are over one hundred rivers to choose from in france alone , we hadnt even had a world war, let alone it being started in early 1900's in western europe. He mentioned pig men fighting in the sky, everybody thought he f@**$!g insane, we hadn't yet flown, yet he saw people in gas masks in fighter planes. He also said that when three 6's appear that london will burn, and it did, the great fire of london started in 1666. He predicted Napoleone, Jfk's assasination, 911 - "In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures,
the great leader will succumb,
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"

Nostradamus 1654
you could say, Wrong. Now let's apply a little intellectual honesty. What earthly (or unearthly) justification could there possibly be for characterizing New York City as "the City of God?" Why refer to the twin towers as "two brothers" when a far more apt word like "buildings" or "monuments" — or even, egad, "towers" — is at hand? Granted, "fortress" accurately describes the Pentagon, but by what stretch of the imagination could one assert that the United States "succumbed" to the 9/11 attacks.

Well firstly, New york is the largest city in the largest Christian dominated country, he predicted a christian city would be attacked, that is accurate enough.

Rather than using monuments or buildings, he's chosen brothers, this is an indication of not only the twin towers but the devide between the east and western brothers.

succomb - to bring down, from Old French succomber, from Latin succumbere, to lie under. the west world hasn't succomb to an end, but is lying under threat and yes we've been brought down a peg, we now take terrorism as a serious threat, the war on terror is a silent war, and i see this new type of war as a War in a new age.

I would like to comment on your other points but as you can see, it would take me far too long to do this, lol, you drive a hard bargain Dan.

 

jq wrote:
ur mind is a representation of the universe: vast spaces that defy quantification, absence of time, ability to create ideationally in one's mind's eye and then manifest idea into matter through the energies of intention, focus and willpower.

daniel replied:
Well consider this... what happens if you die? Does the universe die? Absence of time? I'm not sure I understand that.

in all the toing and froing i forgot about this one, which is a good question. the mentalists would argue that when u die the universe dies. i don't believe so because i don't think that the things about me that have no physical form (ie my soul for want of a better term) die when my physical being does. it's true that i only get one crack at this life but the reality is that my life force, or 'mind stream' as the buddhists call it, moves on to its next appointment in reincarnation. that's the truth of suffering that the buddha refers to: everything dies, but until u get off the wheel, life goes on forever in its interminable 'only to die again' form. (that's what interests me about astrology: it's a way to gauge where i am on the wheel). so no, imho, the universe doesn't die when u do. about absence of time, i didn't explain that very well. i was thinking here about the nature of the mind. i don't know if u've ever done meditation but this experience can give u a much different perspective on the nature of mind. in my exp, a radically different perspective. when i meditate and i go deep into myself i lose contact with the here and now and memories and sensations that harken back to different times in my life come into focus and i relive them again. if i release them, the memories and sensations, what i am left with is a temporary void. in this void i am able to somehow stand outside of myself: or what i have come to regard as my 'self', the feelings, sensaations, memories, images, thoughts and phenomena that have congealed around my mind's (artificial?) notion of selfhood; this is when i am closest to spirit, or source, and can glimpse at the great vastness of space within me and the somewhat timeless nature of my own essence. i know, this prob'ly sounds hippy trippy or whatever, but don't let that put u off, u should try it. the sedona method's the best 4 this one.

 

daniel wrote:
"But that's what it comes down to. Which do you think determines our personality more? Nature or nurture?"

that's another good q that got lost in the shuffle. in linguistics, my own area of research, experiments were conducted into dichotic listening which is the left hemisphere/right hemisphere stuff of the brain: they found that most subjects were able to hear and remember linguistic utterances: words and phrases, they heard in their right ear (left hemisphere processing) rather than non-linguistic sounds they heard, and conversely, subjects interpreted non-linguistic sounds (car horns tooting, rushing waves, chimes etc) more correctly through theit left ear (right hemisphere processing) than they could hear and remember lingusitc utterances they heard in their left ear. now, people who speak a tonal language (in this case it was thai speakers) were shown to favour their left hemisphere-right ear when distinghuishing between syllables that contrasted in tone (contrasting tones were assumed to be something that your right hemisphere processed): in thai and other tonal languages the same syllable spoken at a different tone can signify a different meaning, with such syllables capable of possessing up to five different meanings according to the tone it's spoken in. english speakers by comparison did not show this right ear advantage when they heard the same stimuli because english is not a tone language. in other ways the brain's processing system differed for speakers of different languages. so what u may ask? well, here we have an example of brain chemistry and functioning being a product of neither nature nor nurture but rather of both things. a native speaker's exposure to a certain language (social conditioning or nurture) produces a discernible physiological state ('nature') that is directly due to that social conditioning. it's not, imho, a question of either nature or nurture. it's both but to what degree and in precisely what manner, that is the big mystery. i think many such abstract things like language: sexuality, personality, and maybe even political preferences, operate in this same way. that's what i was getting at earlier when i said something about there being a connection between the physical and non-physical.

 

Hey,

Ive heard some interesting ideas about time(and timelessness) and want to share them, but the stupid comps playin up:| i shall return when the bloody things stopped continuously makin retarded clickin noises.

Love-Maxi.Xx