psychedelic drug pushers

Good.

 

prove god didnt make acid to enlighten people. god made herbs for healing food for eating and drugs for enlightenment its so obvious!

 

I have already replied to this quote. After considering it some more, I will say: I could go along with that even more, if the God joking part was left out. I can't see Him doing a lot of joking these days.

 

I have never had acid or any other kind drug, except for maybe a beer or two per year. This kind of question came up at another forum. The other guy said something like "OK acid is not necessary for enlightenment, but not taking acid is like walking to enlightenment, while taking acid is like taking a car." I said, "Taking it is an individuals choice, but Gieco doesn't cover that crap!" Acid or any other drug doesn't get you anywhere, but screwed and the drug dealer rich. Prayer, meditation, hard sweaty work, the genuine will to know, and plain old sleep, can get you as far and farther than any drug. There are natural ways with a lot less risk than drugs.

Talking about this reminds me of a Gun Smoke episode I saw last week. An old and dying, but noble reverend sought to build a church near an Indian reservation. A town of white settlers and the Indians had a bitter past. The towns people tried to burn down the church before he could get it built. To make a long story, short he ended up giving his first sermon to mainly Indians. He stated how we were different, yet much the same. He noted that he know of the Indians traditional ways, and how they sought The Great Spirit's will by exposing themselves to high temperatures and fasting. He was going to tell them about a man that lived long ago who went out into the desert for 40 days to fast....... He was talking about Jesus of course.

I have never done the 40 days myself. That is a bit of over doing it. However, I have put in long hard days of picking up by hand and hauling rectangular hay bales in 100 degree temps. with high humidity. We did the hay thing in late June and July, every year.

Back in May of 1985, on a Friday night, I was laying in bed. The school year had ended and it was a relief. The next school year I would be a senior. I had been doing some Bible reading before bed. I was thinking of the state of the world and what kind of future me and the world would have. I was thinking of how money seemed to be the motivation for everything. All the religions had been corrupted by it. I had thoughts of being a rock star, only I would give most of the money it away, to try to show the world something selfless rather than selfish. I was not much of a musical talent, but I sure liked to listen to songs with a good message. While laying in bed I prayed as honestly and whole heartedly as I have ever prayed. I fell asleep praying. That night I had a dream. It was kind of like watching TV but it was real life. There was someone talking to me as I was seeing things. I did not understand everything or remember everything, only parts of it. I was shown a three lane one-way highway. At first all of the cars were moving along OK then it began to rain. At first the rain was scattered and there would be distinct lines on the ground where the rain had fallen and where it had not. All the drivers on this road had been driving this way for a very, very long time. The road lead to Mans destruction. The futher these drivers went down this road, the more intense the rain became. The rain was a rain of truth. Throughout the centuries some of Mankind has encountered this truth and heeded it(pulling off to the side of the road in effect). As we moved into this modern era that we live in, the rain has become less scattered and more intense in areas(with the help of modern communications). However, many of us took further steps to avoid the truth. Some cars turned on the wideshield wipers, the head lights and drove slower, but kept going. Near the end of the road the rain would become so intense that not one single driver could continue. They had to stop and yield to the truth. The voice was telling me that I would be a major help in making the rain more intense, to save more people's lives and souls. I had also saw the events of 9/11/01. I however did not fully understand what I was seeing. I remember the voice telling me that these events would shake many people to their core, and cause them to recognized and heed the truth. For many other people though, the repentance would be shallow and short lived. Man would bring further tragedy upon himself, before the whole world would give in to the rain of truth.

In later dreams, I believe that I have had a glimse of what kind of tragedy that might be. I believe that military war will continue in the Middle East people will become more tired of the status quo. The connections I have discovered will become wider known(no thanks to the mass media). Attitudes will change in people in America and much of the rest of the world. The world will become more giving and selfless no dictatorship will be able to stop the flow if information due to the sheer volume of good vibes coming from the rest of the world(and thanks in part to the internet). The different factions in the Middle East and elsewhere will become sick and tired of fighting, and begin to agree on basic things like kindness, understanding and compassion. However, I see the possibility of some die hard radicals who get their hads on nuclear missile technology. The missile plan is found out. It comes down to trying to talk a shaky and nervous terrorist out of pushing a button that will launch missile or missiles(it is possible that it is a suitcase nuke, I am not sure. In any case it is nuclear) at the eastern United States. I believe that if this happens, it will happen at around 2008, before President Bush is out of office. I have talked about this in the misc. section of my site. Maybe some of you will remember what I am saying for a record.

 

i see it like humans think "horrizontaly" because thats the kind of world we live in. The only way to see the world in a different way is to use drugs. Drugs free the mind and enable new perspectives. And there arent many "risks" if you do what you do responsibly and informed. The enlightenment you seek wihtout the aid of drugs is probably far different from mind altering experiences, so who knows, maybe drug induced enlightenment is better =D

 

Well, God didn't make acid, man did (LSD is a synthetic drug). But Cannabis, magic mushies, ergot, peyote, and so on... yeah, those are gifts from above. But I don't think they're the end of the road. As I saw someone say here, quoting someone else (a buddhist monk, maybe?), drugs give you a glimpse of the mountain top, but then you come back down...so you still have to climb the hill on your own. Drugs maybe add a bit of motivation, by reminding you what's up there.

The danger here is that you'll get attached to the drug, thinking it's THE way. It's easy to get stuck in that situation with drugs, given the powerful effects they can give, so you have to be on guard and understand that they're tools, not destinations.

 

doesnt God work through people? =p

 

Really?

Yes. God does not have a sense of humor.

 

Spoken like a man of little experience. If you understood that God uses acid for certain purposes, to teach certain concepts....

Any way God teaches/ molds you is good. If God brings you acid and tells you that you should take it (or you believe you should take it), you should. If God does not bring you acid, you don't have to worry about it, just enjoy and learn from what God does bring you. Don't judge acid as bad because God has not fed it to you (and may never feed it to you). It is right for the people that God gives it to.

That's so cool. (I'm serious) The idea of working out in the heat like that... wow.

 

It seems to me that you can't think of anything but drugs. God created things that are good for the continuation of humanity, and things that are bad for humanity. There is an old saying, everything in moderation. I say not everything! Everything is dangerous if used in excess. Some things should not be taken at all. When you depend on drugs for what you think to be enlightenment, what if you were in a situation where drugs were not available? I remind you of the saying from the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas that I referred to: If those who lead you, say to you: See the kingdom is in the sky, then the birds of heaven will precede you. If they say to you: It is in the sea, then the fish will precede you. But the kingdom is within you and it is with out you. When you know yourselves then you will be known and you will know that you are sons of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty. A sober trip into the country can do more than any drug for knowing yourself.

 

So what do you know, that I don't???????

 

What do you mean by this question?

 

I think the way a drug effects you can teach you about yourself (the strength and control that God exerts over every aspect of your life).

Of course, for some, a trip into the country (outside yourself) is more appropriate than the trip within yourself that God takes you on with acid. It's good to appreciate the riches inside (with drugs) as well as outside (with a trip to the country). Drugs are special because they come from the outside and effect the inside, which is a good thing to meditate on while you are under the effects of God's drugs.

 

It could be too late for you. Drugs have taken your ability to reason.

 

or youre just too closed minded to understand his reasoning. He was actually painting a picture in which drugs use could go along with non drug induced enlightenment, but you obviously dont like to negotiate.

 

Well, in a society that seems to have lost it's tools for spiritual self discovery (the discovery of the kingdom within), drugs can be used to remind ourselves of the means to access that internal mystery of the self (and there, God). I maintain that drugs can be an appropriate tool for spiritual growth provided one does not come to depend on them. It is the government's anti-drug propoganda that has tainted your mind and made you so against drugs. Before this prohibition fever of the 20th century hit, drugs were used by many societies (yes, including Western societies) for pleasure, medicine, and self discovery.

Drugs (I hate that generic word) are not evil. They are just what they are. It is our opinions that make them bad, our preconcieved notions about them. Remember Reefer Madness? It's silly, looking back, but people believe it back then. Marijuana, we now know (though some still refuse to believe it), is not dangerous, aside from slight lung issues connected with inhaling smoke (any smoke, really), and some minor memory loss. It doesn't make you crazy or make you want to kill your family or make black men rape white women. That was an opinion laid on the drug, not the action of the drug itself. Meanwhile, the Hindus believed cannabis is a gift from the gods, and used it in ceremonies. It's the same plant, same drug. Just different opinions. And do you think prevailing opinions in a society might even color the experience of the drug user? That's something to think about there...

 

I think I have been conversing with a few drugs incarnate. The number of people who lost their mortal bodies from natural means of enlightenment, is quite small in comparison to drug takers(if that was their reason for taking drugs to begin with). I can not force you to quit drugs. It is up to you. For me with my life experiences and the Woodstock and Dead Sea Scroll Connections that I have put together, it is elementary that drugs for enlightenment is a HUGE illusion. How many of you have honestly taken in my whole site, including the mp3's?

 

So show me how drugs have made you more enlightened than I am? That is What I meant. Otherwise we are just doing a tit for tat. I am thinking that time will have to tell.

The environment that our parents and our parents', parents are brought up in, and the circumstances that we are born into determine enightenment. In a nutshell, living the golden rule is the world needs. It sure doesn't take drugs to see that! Unless you have taken too many already!

 

those who seek enlightenment through drugs seldom abuse them to the point of death... most of the time is people just looking for a good "buz" who end up killing themselves.

 

It's also more than likely that early man experienced religious enlightenment by way of psychedelic plants as practiced to this day by native and shamanic peoples. The tryptamine DMT isn't called "the spirit molecule" for nothing, and it is also endogenously produced in the pineal gland where ideas and imagination originate in the brain, and is a functional component of serotonin, also an endogenous brain chemical.