Is it POSSIBLE to completely replace petroleum?

While the need for alternative fuel sources for vehicles and power generation is finally starting to get some public discussion, there is an aspect of oil consumption that is almost never addressed, especially outside the scientific press--the OTHER uses for petroleum besides just burning the stuff.

Without petrochemicals, most of our modern "engineering materials" would cease to exist. Almost all plastics, composites, superalloys, semiconductors, etc. start out at least in part as crude oil. And lots of other chemicals, pharmaceuticals, dyes, resins, etc. all come from oil. Not to mention simple little things like greases and lubricating oil that literally keep society from grinding to a halt....

Running out of oil is going to disrupt a lot more than transportation and power plants. While some simple plastics and such can be made from plant-source feedstocks, much of the higher performance materials that modern life depends on can't be made any other way.

This dependence on hydrocarbons as feedstocks for a huge range of other products is one more reason that we need to stop just burning the stuff up. While anything that can generate heat can be used to power cars or generate electricity, there are a LOT of processes and industries for which there is no viable substitute, and probably never will be.

 

I suppose you could make them synthetically using carbon and hydrogen and a renewable energy source. It would just be a lot more cumbersome. Look how much a quart of synthetic oil costs compared with petroleum based.

I wonder how much plastic is squandered in the U.S. just for shopping bags at stores. The government should hand out burlap bags to every citizen. They last almost forever. The cost of handing them out for free would be a small fraction of all the cost of making plastic bags one after another.

But 'conservation' today is a dirty word. I have yet to hear the word uttered by the current administration. Besides, conservation is un-American.

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well, you better start figuring out how to home brew petro chemicals then


make millions with the formula.......

 

I think if we drilled enough holes, killed enuf arabs... we wouldnt need to find a new source, lol

 

Well, they say neccessity is the mother of invention...I think that with the emerging nano-technologies and chemical tech it will not be a large problem for very long.

 

There's evidence that petrochemicals are actually created by bacteria living near the earth's core. We should DEFINITELY start looking at electric cars for the Moms out there, nuke plants for electricity etc. so that we can save the petro. stuff for things like dyes, plastics and cool old Harleys.

 

if we stoped burning it as fuel running out would not be a concern centuries, and we wouldnt be burning near as much now if the goverment simply put the next order for alternative fuel post office vehicles up for bid, very suspicious they havent done that dont you think?

 

I'm goin' with coal, wood, corn/oil and garbage. Also, power should be generated where it's used. I don't like the idea of relyin' on a touchy, vulnerable grid.

 

why arent we hearing of rich people building great tanks and filling them with oil sothat when it runs out, the price will skyrocket so high that wars could be started over a tank of oil


well that wouldnt necessarily be good but i dont understand why there isnt a big oil investment system going on.

 

I would think there were things before oil just as there will be things after oil...its only a matter of time

 

Of course, but before petrochemicals, material choices were pretty limited. Metals, ceramics/glass, wood, or concrete were about all there was....

 

interesting... i think that that my not be done because the price skyrocket is now, and when we use half the oil( not all of it), it becomes too expensive to produce, and the market crashes(yeah the whole oil market and their freinds). Its called peak oil, and i dont know that much about it, except that it sounds very bad, very sudden and not that far off.

anyway, the reason we are so dependant on oil is because for one unit of oil we get 100 units of energy. nothing else compares.

hydrogen at first sounded good to me, cause 18 percent get converted to power, as opposed to gas's 3 percent or so. but then i got suspicious with all the oil and car companies + republicans like Ar-nuld jumped on that boat. as it turns out, hydrgen takes a huge amount of petrol to make, and the vehicals are too redicuously expensive.

I think our best bet is a combination, to lighten the load on oil, led by solar power.

in the US, solar is much rarer than in the rest of the world because as a threat to oil and to some extent power companies, it is subject to sneaky legislation and taxes, resulting in a lack of people trained to install or repair panals, and highly inflated prices

 

That's a point I've made here a few times. When someone hears a politician promoting hydrogen power, they should always ask whether the plan is to derive it from petroleum sources or renewable resources.

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A friend of mine is working for FEMA right now... This, along with many other issues, is one of the topics that he and his boys are already looking into since petroleum is a non-renewable resource. From what he tells me, there are a lot of ways that we could cut back on petroleum use in cars and the likes, but there is too much money being made by withholding (legally or otherwise) the technology that would allow us to use some of those plant-oils such as the idea of using soybean oil as a fuel source. Of course, there are some things that we will need petroleum oil for regardless, but most of those machines and the likes CAN be redesigned and fitted with different kinds of processors that would utilize natural (ironically more efficient to boot) lubrication and fuel methods. I'm not going to really go too far into this since I'm not the one who really knows his shit when it comes down to it, but I was amazed to realize how much of our petroleum oil dependence was completely unnecessary and futile.

Hydrogen and solar power are one thing, but if we can get cars and other machines that can utilize something as cheap and efficient as soy (the mp/g for soy was outstanding... and it goes for like $.10 a bushel or some crazy shit!) then I think we owe it to ourselves to employ those resourcese ASAP! There are even webpages out that that can teach you how to convert your car/truck/van over to a diesel engine which will burn the soy-byproduct just as it would diesel... Of course, importing soy and boiling it down to get the oil is illegal (it's a process similar to moonshine) but it's only because the government wants you to buy oil and gas. How's them apples? I'll be at home in a few hours, and my best friend there will probably come over, so I'll ask him about this tonight and post what I find out. Anyways, I wish I could say more, but a world without petroleum is quite possible...

 

In a remotely related matter, why is it that oat bran is like soy, about $0.10 a bushel, yet a little box of oat bran at the supermarket can cost as high as $6.00?

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Obviously people think that gasoline consumption is the main use of petroleum, but we use the hydrocarbons in other things...Like, where do we get plastics from?

Nobody ever stopped and thought that all synthetics come from petrochemicals. There is nothing you can synthesize to be oil, but there are alternatives such as hemp oil, vegetable oil, and the like. Mobile Oil has worked in conjunction with researchers to distill 'hemp gas' out of hemp oil, and the refining wouldn't be anything too complex.

There are theories of the whole "Peak Oil" philosophy to which the Earth has a finite amount of oil. This is cumbersome, since they are finding oil pockets everywhere but production is down. If this theory is true, it could explain why our sudden piqued intrest in the Middle East and Mexico's reserves. If not, then its just disinformation in order to justify our thrust into the Middle East--an ambush against OPEC, possibly? China is increasing its need for oil--Christ, they're buying Cadillacs over there now...maybe our fearless leaders have felt the need to spread their empire before the Chinese do.

In any case, our best bet is to move away from nonrenewable resources. NO TRUE CONSERVATIVE CAN CONTEST WHAT I AM GOING TO SAY RIGHT NOW--we need to tighten our belts, and as a country live a little below our means--having a command economy with a severe dependance in the service sector, scant manufacturing industries left, and such a high trade deficit is in dire straights is overextending ourselves. A few more blue chip stocks hit junk status, the bubble of overpriced housing pops because no one is buying homes anymore, and houses that had equity loans borrowed against them--on top of the home financing that bought the house outright--starts getting recalled by the banks, then what?

I guess a nation of call centers and work stations, in debt to its eyeballs.

 

Yea, of course, but they are still trying to figure out how to make you pay for it...

 

Take a look at a bottle of synthetic oil and see how much more it costs compared with petroleum derived.

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Bynyrd Skynyrd (nice name):

First of all... who says we need plastics or anything that comes from petroleum oil? Many things that we use plastics for can be replaced by paper, wood, and other things that are renewable. If we monitor our deforestation rate responsibly, then there's no reason substituting wood and metals for plastic would be such a terrible thing. Besides... plastic is ugly, environmentally shitty, and it's not as durable as something made out of steel. Who sleeps on a bed made of plastic? No one I've ever met does. How could you sleep knowing that your bed was made out of shitty plastics... I'm gonna need steel or wood... that's just how I roll...

Secondly, I agree with you about tightening our belts and living below our means.... I have so many damn CD's I'll never be able to listen to again, or that I just don't ever want to listen to again... now I just throw them at people or use them as cup holders... However, real estate in this country (at least in the Southeast) is doing quite well. Tons of people are selling and buying homes thanks to the growing number of real estate franchise offices and the low rates that they charge when compared to private real estate companies. It sucks for the private people because now they can't get away with skimming 6% off the top quite so easily, but the people working in the franchise offices are typically simple people with simple dreams (financially at least). A good real estate agent in my town can make anywhere between $200,000 - $600,000 a year depending on how business is flowing, but my mom and her boss were both making around $60,000 a year, although Tom was paid a little more than she was, but he was way way in debt when he opened that place. When they first opened the office, I went to help Tom out one weekend (he was a member of the church my dad preached at down in south ga, and he moved to rome in hopes of this whole thing work) and Tom couldn't get a seller for jack shit. I spent 6 hours there and I got 3 people to sign on all their houses sold within less than a month! I made $35 dollars total for that whole weekend, but Tom told me I've got a job ready for me if I ever need one. Anyways, that place started out selling like 15 homes by the end of the first year they were there. Last year they sold 36 homes, and the number is growing like it's nobody's business!

 

Unless you want to go back to a pre-industrial age,there are some applications where plastics simply CANNOT be replaced with metals or wood. Think about boring but vital things like electrical insulation...