Why do the national libertarians keep reminding me of the Nazis?

It's good to see the acid's working, PB.

 

Do I have this right? What you are saying is that the top ten percent of wage earners pay 96% of over 80% of all income tax? In other words, the top 10 percent of all wage earners pay about 77% of income tax in the USA.

???

The most rich people pay on most of their income is 15% because they call their income 'capital gains' while workers pay up to 35% on their ordinary income. Where tax liability can be avoided by the rich, it always is. According to AskQuestions:

"A recent Congressional study reported that 63% of US corporations paid no income taxes at all in 2000. Six in ten American corporations reported no tax liability for the five years from 1996 through 2000, even though corporate profits were growing at record-breaking levels during that period."
http://www.askquestions.org/articles/taxes/

In any case we could argue all day about figures and percentages but this would only distract our minds from the main point: that the tax system is designed by the rich and for the rich. Many would argue that this is how it should be since these are the people who generate the wealth for the economy from which all derive a benefit. Well if that's your position then argue it for Minerva's sake. Is it?

 

stop it! i won't have u saying such things about THE MAN I LOVE!

 

You could do better, you saucy minx!

 

Perhaps they remind you of the Nazis because they are motivated by the same un-conscious wish-fulfulments.

Both are motivated by the same latent homo-sexual desires to own, control, and aquire.

These grasping anal-retentive homo-erotic impulses are packaged simply as freedom of expression, not sexual freedom of expression.

The Nazi's were a little more honest in packaging their effeminate slavishness, as the free expression of their White racial-identity.

Racial-identity being increasingly more powerful to compensate for an increasingly inadequate sexual-identity.

The Libertarians pretend not to care about race, because they know that the most efficient way for anyone to express their latent homo-sexuality through anal-retentive private-property is to act as White as possible anyway.

 

When has the 'desire to own, control and acquire' ever been the exclusive perogative of latent homosexuality? Most of the world's most successful capitalists personify aggresive Alpha male type behaviour which is quite the antithesis. And effeminate slavishness is the manifestation of repressed homosexuality only in the minds of comic book artists and drag queens. Anyway, I can't quite decide if you think this is a good thing or not. None of what you say is in anyway clear.

 

How ironic that Libertarianism, property rights, the constitution and free enterprise are not the solution to this nation's disease.

 

Then what is?

 

You're the one always talking about governmental greed. A sudden change of heart I take it.

And what is government after all but people? Greedy bastards by any other name smell as rank.

Voluntary? Nobody lives in a vacuum. Please also be advised some individuals misappropriate funds, steal and cheat voluntarily.

 

True morality. Moral cooperation. Nominally you could call it communism, but not historic communism. I call it communism -- I find that name conceptually appealing -- because we want everyone to have a top issue quality of life. Not just pigs. Don't identify me with any other communists, at least, not at this point. I realize the term "communism" is a liability...but in terms of ultimate ideals I think they're on the right track which is more than I can say for others.

 

Your asking key questions whose answers begin the un-ravelling of our collective cover-story.

During our anal-stage of sexual-development we're discovering how important our bowel movements are to the adults around us.

More to the point, these bowel movements are accompanied by an anal-pleasure of relief.

Unfortunately, Civilization's notoriously strict potty-training frustrates and upsets Children.

Thus triggering a need to relieve these frustrations by a grasping desire to aquire, own and control.

Often expressed though the infamous whinny 'mine! mine! give me! give me!' tantrums of the 'terrible twos and threes' (the anal-stage).

And through the Behavioral process of association, aquiring, owning, and controlling triggers a 'Pavlovian Response' of anal-retentive pleasure.

It starts with Shit, and for the rest of our lives, everything we want to aquire, own and control never amounts to more than anal-pleasures of SHIT.

Joking aside, adding to all the above is the death-fear that stalks the new Civilized environment of organized aggression like a grim-reaper.

Like all fear, death-fear physically grips the anus.

Civilized Man, afflicted with a strict potty-training, and a chronic death-fear, possesses a powerful latent homo-sexuality.

The exaggerated male-postures is a sure sign of acute male sexual anxiety.

Like all energy, psycho-sexual energy constantly seeks its own equilibium by over-compansating for any in-ballance.

The inadequate male is constantly preoccupied with proving himself.

Capitalism is currently the most efficient expression of our neurotic preoccupation.

Everywhere we turn it's the most obvious show around.

The slavish effeminacy we find in the minds of 'comic book artists and drag queens', is NOT the same thing as effeminate slavishness.

Slavishly seeking the authority and security of Hierarchical Civilization's Alpha-Male hierarchy is an effeminate expression of latent homo-sexuality.

Effeminate because, fearful woman under the stress of death-fear is always the first to seek the authority and security of the Alpha-Male father-figure.

Effeminately Slavish because a Civilized 'Man', slavishly preoccupied with a chronic death-fear, is neither fearless nor brave, but effeminately fearful.

This may seem harsh, but fearful men always question and never truely believe in their sexual identity.

The logic of Biological Determinism is not about good or bad.

Libertarianism is neither good nor bad, but rather, it serves a purpose in allowing a release of repressed homo-erotic impulses.

To attack Libertarianism, Captialism, or Private-Property as bad, is simply attacking the symptom.

Moreover, without first healing the in-ballance of our psycho-sexual energy, we will continue to seek a more Libertarian aproach to fulfill our anal-retentive homo-erotic impulses of Private-Property and Capitalism.

 

Ahh, this brings back many thrilling memories of undergraduate life in Vienna of the 1930s where I was lucky enough to study at the feet of the great Master himself. I had quite forgotten about anality and character traits. And the way you have threaded that into the political discourse here is also ingenious, if not perhaps a tad reductionist. But never mind, an idea worth flogging is worth flogging mercilessly. Full marks to you my good fellow.

 

I think I'm lucky just to be able to follow simple reductionist models.

I mean, how many of us even do that much?

You should try it, it's fun; the psycho-dynamics of politics is wild. Literally wild.

Well, that means you were in a position to comment on the racial/sexual connections I drew between the Nazis and the Libertarians.

That both Nazism and Libertarianism are effeminate expressions of a latent homo-sexual impulse to submissively bend-over for Alpha-Male Authority.

Germans, including Anglo-Saxons, are famous for their submissive posture to Authority.

Anglo-Saxon America nearly worships Alpha-Male Authority as the source of all wealth and security.

Libertarian cheer-leaders wish to Liberate the object of their desires from all constraints. True love.

Plus Libertarians wish greater liberty to satisfy their desire to feel the anal-pleasures of Property and Capital.

Hmmm...I don't know what to say, that's rare.

He'd probably roll-over in his grave if he read my posts!

 

I am a liberal (left-wing) libertarian and mainly I am outspoken more about social issues than economic. I guess I am more of a minarchist than anything. But, I AM a Libertarian. I AM an Individualist. I could care less about groups, golden ages, superiority, etc.

I don't see how you could attribute such characteristics to a libertarian. That is insane, in my opinion.

And I REALLY take offense to these fucking labels always taking the Libertarian economic stance and forgetting the social platforms. That pisses me off, really.

A true libertarian is about FREEDOM of ALL INDIVIDUALS. Period.

 

I don't know what your specific social views are -- it's good to hear you at least have some and tend toward the humanitarian (i.e. the Left) -- but you (too) need to understand that the ultimate goal in life is NOT freedom but satisfaction. Optimal quality of life. For all not just a few. Freedom is just an incidental, a stepping stone. In and of itself freedom is worthless. A phony jewel. Don't make me quote Janis Joplin (Kris Kristofferson) . This is why Libertarianism -- assuming as you say it's "about freedom, period" -- is a fundamentally misdirected philosophy. Headed the wrong way. Period.

 

I think we may agree more than you believe about humanitarianism, however I have to ask: Who determines what the optimal quality of life is for each individual? What liberties would we have? Which ones would we have to give up to reach this optimal quality for all? Who would control this?

I'm really crossing my fingers hoping that you don't think that the State is the answer to these questions, because they are just as corrupt (if not more) than corporations.

This is no fucking democracy, nor a republic. It is a MARRIAGE between Big Business & Big Government: The USA is a CORPORATE OLIGARCHY run by politicans and CEOs with their little henchmen- THE LOBBYISTS.

I believe in freedom and the ability to choose for each person, and I stand against initial force of any kind whether it be one man or a group of men with badges and guns.

 

I largely agree Libertine except there's more.

Who determines the optimal quality for each individual? Ultimately each individual. But some mechanism has to be in place to assure equality if resources are limited. Who would control this? People. Exactly how is, however, the big question. But there has to be some human organization otherwise you just end up with survival of the fittest.

This is no fucking democracy? The US is a corporate oligarchy? I agree entirely. What this proves is that the Constitution we have (attention Constitution addicts) and "individual rights" (attention individual rights addicts) are insufficient to get us where we want to go. We need a new and better system.

You say you stand against force of any kind but people have to organize to counter other organized forces.

The thing is this: any human organization can be dangerous. The state, government, corporations, vigilantes, organized religions clubs WHATEVER.There's no reason to dump on JUST the government or JUST coorporations etc etc all groups are potentially dangerous. BUT you need human organization to accomplish anything on this planet beside foraging for nuts and berries. Since organization is necessary that's why you need basic moral principles (I mean real moral principles not crap like banning gay marriage) and institutions with checks and balances which do not exist in current at least not American society.

We're going away again tomorrow for a number of days wish I could be around to discuss more.

 

Politically, there are many planks in the Libertarian platform concerning foriegn affairs and the drug war that I agree with.

Unfortunately however, the Libertarians, like all of us alien-invaders, are trapped in our Old-World inertia.

We have merely transplanted all of our same psycho-pathologies from the Old-World on to this once pristine New-World.

We didn't create freedom in the Old-World because of our fear-driven incompetence.

And it's because of our transplanted incompetence that we have never created freedom here in America.

The Libertarian belief that America's heritage is freedom is proof of how clueless and delussional American Libertarians are.

We came to destroy the freedom of the New-World by imprisoning it in our little Private Property cages.

Where once the men of the New-World were as free as the wind like real men, now like neutered kittens we pace to and fro in our little postage stamp Private Property cages.

This is the Libertarian idea of freedom.

Freedom to continue to live in our transplanted Old-World psychosis.

But at least the Libertarians will let us smoke our cannibus and feel the wind through the bars of our cages.

That's more than the Democrats or the Republicans will allow.

 

The Real World is the world of Real Primate Motivations, the world of Real Sex and Real Death.

The Real World where Real Primates really use deception as their first strategy to grasp sex and hold-off death.

The Real World where politics, business and religion are deceptive expressions of Real Sex and Real Death.

The Other World, the Civilized World of Normality does not exist except as a spell of delusions and denials woven into an irresistable mass psychosis by our collective Ego to mask its deceptions.

Libertarians are symptoms not cures.