amsterdam at christmas

that's cool, but please don't makes claims about it being all innocent and non racist when you haven't even taken the time to look at the other side. that's how so many of the truly horrible things in the world have been allowed to happen, because people just stood by towed the party line without thinking for themselves.

 

actually, it's more the implicit suggestion that sint (represented by white like all things good and christian) is the all good force in contrast to the piets. it's the association of white/good , black/bad that is offensive to many (infact the raven story is even more offensive than the slave story!). it is a christian thing more than a dutch thing but the dutch continue to promote the idea.

i didn't intend to start another thing here and i certainly don't want to argue with you again, but the fact remains that many people find it offensive.

i've been in the netherlands for the last 4 christmas' and each time I have asked black friends what they thought about it (after many dutch people telling me that im just being to politically correct) and each time several (not all, but i would say the majority) of them told me that they felt offended by it but didn't feel confortable about voicing their feelings as the tradition was so revered amongst the dutch. perhaps velvet could ask some of her surinamese friends about it?

ps. likewise, don't believe everything you hear or are taught.

 

My Surinam friends aren't black

Could ask my African friends, but then I'd first have to explain to them what Sinterklaas is about in the first place. Oh.. and I'd like to make two points here:

1) from what I've experienced 'allochtoon' people are way more racist than autochtoon people.. they stereotype very easily, not just when it comes to other etniticities, but also among skincolor (like how in Surinam the 'bush negros' are extremely proud of their intens black color because they were the slaves that freed themselves by escaping and fighting.. they look down on the 'brown' townfolk. On the other hand the lightcolored blacks look down on the 'bush people'..

2) In Sierra Leone there is a story about a demon that lures (young) men into the water to drown them. This woman is white, has long blond hair, a pointy nose and blueish eyes. Basically.. she looks like me, so I've been told by one of my SL friends.. hehe. So.. he thinks I look like a demon and I should worry about him being offended by a candy giving, funny acting zwarte piet? I don't think so

 

I can understand why ppl who don't know the tradition would find it offensive.. But it's a very old tradition, so get to know it better and you'll see it's harmless and friendly.. And soooo not degrading, every kid looks up to zwarte piet.. And when you watch sinterklaas tv you'll find that the smart zwarte piet often helps clean up a mess sinterklaas made and sinterklaas doesn't see or treat them as help or slaves..

and as a kid I was afraid of sinterklaas, not of zwarte piet..

 

do your mommy and daddy realize that all that money spent on graduate studies went to waste?

 

Only part of it that I liked was the horse.. hehehe.. scared of both Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet. But yeah.. Sinterklaas was even worse because he was judging if you had been a good kid that year.. he was like.. serious grumpy dude, while the Zwarte Pieten are just friendly and fun

And yeah.. Sinterklaas needs help with everything.. so the Zwarte Pieten are more his social workers than his slaves.. hehe.. hey I wonder.. maybe we should start calling them 'african dutch Pieten'.. hahaha.. god I hate that whole 'african american' thing.. political correct nonsense..

Anyway.. let's not start a rant about that again, it's a huge petpeeve of mine..

 

do you ever have anything worthwhile to contribute?....didn't think so.

continue using your fantasy of one day moving to amsterdam to numb yourself to the mundane and inconsequential life that you have in reality.

 

Well, considering he has more worthwhile things to say than you, I'm suprised you would say such a thing. Not everything has to be taken with a "glass is half empty" attitude to be worthwhile. Quit your bitching and get over it. There's unfairness all over the world, it's what we do and how we deal with it that makes the difference. Complaining accomplishes nothing unless action is taken.

 

im yet to see him offer anything but insults. what's more, whenever he's challenged and called to task, he backs down everytime. who's bitching now? i think my contributions to this forum have been far more thought provoking than his. im open to the possiblity that he has been a worthwile contributor in the past, but he most certainly hasn't shown any of that here.

you're absolutely right about it being how we deal with unfairness and injustice that is what's important. whether you realise it or not, discussion is where it starts.

 

discussion is good but you are simply a condescending over-educated future sheep shearer. i love your contradictions as you say discussion is good but immediately refused to debate with myrtje on the grounds that you were almost done with your graduate studies and she is 'merely' 17 yrs old.


you are a punk, plain and simple. you act now as if you came here for intellectual discourse but in your first post all you did was whine about madame tussauds.

also you moved back to australia but you still feel the need to come here and bitch and moan becuase you couldn't hack it in amsterdam becuase the natives were mean to you. what a pussy! and instead of doing what the forum is designed to do, 'travel and meet new friends' you lash out at those here out of your frustation at being such a dipshit.

In closing, you are a piece of dogshit on the dirty streets of amsterdam. Usually people step by you but sometimes, sometimes people step right in you and their foot slides a little as the shit gives way and thats when you smile.

 

Ohhhwww.. I can just féél the love in here right now!

This made me laugh out loud though.. hehe:

If we want to continue stereotyping: is this typical male behaviour? You guys are marking your turf here on the forum or sth? If it was a girl fight there would be hot naked bodies and mud wrestling by now *tries to surpress lesbian thoughts*.. hehehe..

... think I ate too much chocolate..

 

wow. i guess this almost qualifys as a response. say what you will about me, at least i've walked the fucking walk. you on the other hand hang out here and on the expatica forums in some pathetic attempt at creating a fictional life for yourself. i know nothing about you, but my guess is that you're trapped in a crap life in the US. you make fuck all working your balls off for a company you hate, only to come home to a child that you regret having at such a young age. you fake it through by getting stoned and dreaming of how perfect your life will be once you move.

why don't you take the plunge and move to amsterdam? maybe then i'll have a little more respect for you. as for why i moved back to australia, well that has very little to do with me 'not being able to hack it'. the simple fact of the matter is that quality of life is much higher and the weather is better. i maintain a connection to amsterdam based on the fact that i hold dutch citizenship and that i own an apartment there. as opposed to your own connection with the place which is all in your head.

right now everything you say is moot and you know it.

 

to the original poster: i apologise for my part in hijacking your thread.

 

yeah, you're spot on actually. this has just become a pissing contest now.

 

Did you see that one man show that Robin Williams did? He had a bit about that.. peeing on a car "mine!".. peeing on a woman.. "mine!".. hehehe

Easy guys.. we all love you equally

 

can't say i saw that one but it sounds pretty accurate. men act exactly like dogs in this regard. it's disgusting and i should just bail out now. i guess this is just a release of sorts. i've never been the guy who starts fights in the bar (neither has mafuman i suspect) and maybe this is some way we can execise our male pride without getting the bruises.

besides, this is just the internet and what is it they say about winning wars online? it's like winning an event in the special olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded.

 

It's fun though Otherwise.. why would the retards enter the Special Olympics?

 

that's the one. lol

 

its history could be, but we dont live in history, we live now, and nowadays its just something innocent for children and it should be made into this big thing anymore.

 

true, but i am standing and you are sitting. trut.