intelligent design?

Ack.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/02/bush.education.ap/index.html

I can't understand why this stuff is still around. I mean, if they want to teach this in a theology class I could understand, but high school biology classes have no business propagating religion.

Anyone have any feelings about this thing? I'm speechless.

 

I don't think that's a good idea. It would seem like we're regressing rather than moving forward. Some people need to get with the times.

 

Put "Bush" and "intelligent" in one sentence, and it'll never be a good idea.

 

What I don't get is when people say it doesn't have anything to do with religion.

 

It's true though (ID).
It's as hard to teach a creationist (someone who perceives the intent behind the forces without perceiving the forces) about ID as it is to teach someone who views things from a purely 'natural' perspective (someone who perceives the forces but not the intent behind them).

Like you could ever be speechless.

 

Faced.

 

"The theory of intelligent design says life on earth is too complex to have developed through evolution, implying that a higher power must have had a hand in creation."

Well I don't think they're talking about the stork...

Why would you teach the kids that life's too complex not to believe in a higher power!?!

Wasn't that the Pagans rhetoric?

 

But teaching the intent behind the forces that govern the universe is a matter of religion, and doesn't belong in science class.

True enough.

 

Probably because so many religions have creation myths instead of teaching Intelligent Design. I mean, there is true knowledge of God and God's creation, and there is religion "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices" which may or may not be an accurate representation of reality.

 

That argument falls apart because it doesn't realise the very core of evolution is to achieve complexity. Natural selection means the most complex forms of life will thrive.

It's not like you can rationally argue that evolution doesn't happen... we can see it happening in labs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4708459.stm

The problem with ID is when peoples religious dogma conflicts with the scientific explanationof the genisis of life. It's not like you can't be spiritual and believe in evolution.

I dare you to find me one atheist who belives in creationism.

 

??? Science is supposed to teach truth to students, and I don't think any aspect of the truth should be ignored when teaching students. Of course, kids can only absorb so much information at a time.... so a balanced approach is needed.

Maybe it is good to teach the forces of nature in one class, and the intent behind these forces in another. Although I think each class should stress that what exists in the other class exists as well.

 

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Your arguments getting too abstract.

Science begins with observation, and moves to hypothesis, testing and debate.

The ID argument always falls back to what was taught about creation in a very specific religion. (Jewish/christian/muslim)

Intent behind the forces of nature is religion, I don't see how you can say otherwise. I don't think there should be a religion class in school, as school is a public institution to educate, not a private institution to propegate a very specfic faith.

You don't think these people are taking about Vishnu when they bring up intelligent design do you? This is about getting jesus in school to fight what they see as a growing secular movement.

 

The most suited lifeform to the current environment will survive, not necessarily the most complex.

Basically, the law of natural selection is sorta funny (it's so blatantly obvious):

If an organism cannot survive in an environment, it will die and will not reproduce.
If an organism can survive and reproduce, there is a chance that it's offspring can survive and reproduce.

Pretty silly, ehh? Of course, if we can make dinosaurs from recovered dna....

 

But critics saw Bush's comment that "both sides" should be taught as the most troubling aspect of his remarks. "It sounds like you're being fair, but creationism is a sectarian religious viewpoint, and intelligent design is a sectarian religious viewpoint," said Susan Spath, a spokeswoman for the National Center for Science Education, a group that defends the teaching of evolution in public schools. "It's not fair to privilege one religious viewpoint by calling it the other side of evolution."

If you were to ask how I was created...well I wasn't created until my dad screwed my mother...so I'll assume it has something to do with biology/wild hormones and thats why my father's name is on my birth certificate and not the word GOD.

 

Sorry... which definition of abstract do you mean?

As does your understanding of God. True understanding moves beyond the stage of debate.

No it doesn't. Where did you get this silly idea? ID doesn't make a claim that God made the earth in seven days, eons, or whatever. ID just says God created the forces of nature and uses them to achieve what God intends. Of course, a creationist might claim that ID proves their creation myth, but all ID shows about the creation myth is that the myth is part of God's intelligent design (whether or not it is true is not addressed by ID).

Seeing intent behind the forces of nature is perceiving the truth. Call it whatever you want, but the truth should and will be taught.

Part of education is teaching the truth. You don't need to propegate a specific denomination to teach someone the truth. Just tell 'em the truth.

It's about spreading knowledge of God, which Jesus was good at. Just like Newton's theory of gravity was followed up by Einstein's more accurate theory of relativity, a modern day enlightened being has a chance to take spirituality further than Jesus did.

 

There is such a thing as creation science and scientific proof that the world was created. Apparently (and I haven't looked into it) these scientists claim they have as much proof for creation as for evolution, but people just choose to ignore it. I am about to look into it, but it could be some time before I get to any conclusion.

 

She just doesn't get it. Of course, there are many religious fanatics that will try to twist ID to support their twisted theology, but in the end, the truth will be made apparent (this is part of Intelligent Design).

From ID standpoint, your father and mother were 2 of the natural (linear) forces that were used (by God) to produce you.

 

There is no truth about god. God is an abstract religious concept, which creationists want taught in school. You can't use god and truth in the same context when it comes to public education. You are pushing your faith on others.

Atheists, Buddhists, Shintoists and others don't believe in the god of Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammed. And just because ID proponents don't use the word god, doesn't mean they aren't talking about religion.

ID is religion as it has a creator. There is no definate in religion, just a bunch of beliefs, which might be okay in a class about theology, but not in a class about science. God isn't science.

Okay, you're obviously devout, but why should that be forced upon children as fact? ID is religion.

 

Yeah, they claim the grand canyon was formed in a matter of day. *there talking about the flood*

The Grand Canyon is made of granite, and could not be dug in such a matter by any volume of water in one time. The Grand Canyon was formed over hundreds of millions of years. Creationists reject that time frame because it conflicts with the biblical time frame of creation.

They also either believe that dinosaurs we're either put on earth to trick us, or that people and dinosaurs we're around at the same time A la flinstones.

These people actually don't believe in carbon dating.

These people aren't scientists, and there is no scientific conspiracy to destroy religion, which is the basis of creation 'scientists' argument.

 

I went to the Grand Canyon in May 1999. There is no way that it was made in 1 day. I live a few hrs away from the canyon and it would take ya more then a day to hike around & see it all.