Abu Ghraib *warning graphic photos*

The reality of being a POW...


http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow1.htm

 

Horribly true... but the text is comforting.

 

oh by the way those Mirror pictures are fake..

 

Eww.I would want Jenna and Barbara in the military...our poor guys are exposed to enough danger as it is...they don't need to be accidently killed in friendly fire by an incompetant bimbo-spawn of Dubya.

Jenna couldn't lay off the booze long enough to aim a gun anyways.

 

I think the general idea of this thread was to: 'Exposes us as being no better than saddam.' apart from the fact that some pictures are faked the majority if not all the people involved have been through the military disciplinary procedure etc and that it no more reflects the actions of the majority than say the few people that hate spam... oh and 'we' are nothing like saddam at all.
Why are not the 'Bush twins' joining the military ? well apart from there not being a draft i would imagine they don't want too.. free country and all.

 

I just wonder where this all is going to lead to... it's just discgusting.

Peace and Sunpower for all....

 

I know seriously. you would think they would think they would want to be fighting alongside their fellow americans in iraq, hunting down terrorists.

all of the conservatives pass it off as just a minor offense. but how would they like it if they were covered in feces in the nude?

 

how do you know the pictures are fake? every time you conservatives start to loose a debate you just say our sources are unreliable and leave thinking youve won.

 

hey i got a great idea! lets support our troops!

 

If you have not looked into it yourself already

Not all of them, just the ones from the mirror [like i said] .

15 May 2004
SORRY.. WE WERE HOAXED
VOICE OF THE MIRROR: Iraqi PoW abuse pictures handed to us WERE fake
Hoaxes: Minister Adam Ingram

IT is now clear that the photographs the Mirror published of British soldiers abusing an Iraqi prisoner were fakes.​

The evidence against them is not strong enough to convict in a court but that is not the burden of proof the Daily Mirror demands of itself.​

Our mission is to tell the truth.​

That is something this newspaper has been doing for more than 100 years and will always strive to do. If ever we fail, we are letting down the people who mean most to us. Our readers.​

So to you today we apologise for publishing pictures which we now believe were not genuine.​

We also say sorry to the Queen's Lancashire Regiment and our Army in Iraq for publishing those pictures.​

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,8542,1208623,00.html

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=mirror+pictures+fake&meta=

How would you describe a 'conservative' ?.. i am interested to see if your pre- concieved notions are any where near 'who i am'.

 

All of the people involved have gone trough military disciplinary procedure? Come on. I know that you're smarter than that. Noone has taken the fall for this who goes above staff seargent. And it's just beyond reason to think that all of that could go on without anyone above staff seargent knowing about it.

And to say that we're no better than Saddam is exagerating a bit. But I think that the point is that we are hypocrites. We prop up murderous dictators all over the world. We sell him the chemical weapons, and then complain when he used them against the wrong people. Really now. Who are we kidding? Only ourselves.

 

A Dutch businessman accused of complicity in war crimes and genocide for selling chemicals to Iraq knew Saddam Hussein would use them for poison gas attacks, prosecutors said on Friday. Frans van Anraat, 62, is charged with supplying thousands of tons of agents for poison gas that Saddam's military used in the 1980-1988 war against Iran and against its own Kurdish population, including an attack on the town of Halabja in 1988.

Prosecutor Fred Teeven told a pre-trial hearing at the high-security court in Rotterdam that Van Anraat continued to supply chemicals after the Halabja attack, which killed an estimated 5,000 people 17 years ago this week.

"Van Anraat was conscious of ... the fact that his materials were going to be used for poison gas attacks," he said.

"The damage and grief caused will not be rapidly, if ever, forgotten."...

Saddam and his feared cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid, also known as "Chemical Ali," face trial for war crimes, including the Halabja attack, at a special tribunal in Iraq.

U.N. weapons inspectors have called Van Anraat one of the most important middlemen who supplied Iraq with chemical agents.

The first Dutchman to be tried on genocide-related charges, Van Anraat, who sat silently in court, faces up to life in prison if convicted. The next hearing has been scheduled for June. His trial is expected to begin later this year.

Van Anraat was first detained in Milan in 1989 following a U.S. request but was released after two months. He then fled to Iraq, where it is thought he stayed until the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, when he returned to the Netherlands through Syria.

The AIVD Dutch secret service provided Van Anraat with a mobile phone and helped him find housing when he returned to the Netherlands in 2003 and assured him he would not face prosecution, his lawyers said.

He was arrested by Dutch officials at a house in Amsterdam in December as he was preparing to leave the country. get your facts right .........

​

 

We never sold Saddam chemical weapons, this is a convenient myth for people that need the US to be to blame for everything.

 

Karma is the last true form of justice. But unfortunately any military personnel taken prisoner since this will be the ones who pay the ultimate price. All because of another persons cruel & sadistic lack of judgment.

 

I think the fanatics were pretty much set on chopping heads regardless of whether Abu Ghraib had become public or not. The difference is just which excuse they use.

 

I think most of the people if not all have gone through the military disciplinary procedure as the bulk of the pictures are from one source and group of merciless wing nuts [Ms England being a major culprit].. Take away the pictures that show D.Rumsfeld on walk about, take away those that are faked.. What do you have left ? pictures that are somewhat out of context .. we do not know the circumstances of some and will probably never know.. but they are used to perpetuate, i think the general idea of 'Exposes us as being no better than saddam.' . I appreciate this was some one elses view, but i doubt [and i stand corrected] if this is not how shaba feels also..

This has nothing to do with selling chemicals , thats another thread and possibly another myth [in certain circumstances] i think squashed by PB [i think]. I know the sun does not shine out of certain individuals or groups of individuals arses .. but the thrust of this thread is quite exagerated .

I agree international relations is condemed to be hypocritical .

 

They marched prisoners around naked in broad daylight! They beat them to bloody pulps. Didn't a doctor notice that? Were they getting any medical attention? And what about that guy they beat to death? Word about that didn't get up above staff seargent? It's all plausible deniability. We can't PROVE that they knew it. But common sense sais that they're lieing to us again. And if they really didn't know about it, than heads should be rolling for incompetence. Heads above staff seargent. Someone should have known about it.

Now, about us supplying chemical weapons to Iraq. Look at this.

http://www.sundayherald.com/27572

"Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs which oversees American exports policy reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene."

The reason that noone from the US is up on war crimes charges like that Dutch guy is that we refuse to participate in the international war crimes tribunal treety.

And if you don't trust that, look at these.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2002/021001-iraq3.htm
http://www.chronicillnet.org/PGWS/tuite/chembio.html

That's from spending 10 minutes with a search engine. Where do you get your news from, Fox? We sold Saddam chemical weapons! We also liked him just fine as long as he was OUR tyrant. Should we get into Bin Laden's history with the CIA too? They trained and funded him to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, and he never left. It isn't just a couple of coincidences, either. It's our long history of funding, arming, training, and generaly propping up tyrants and murderers when it's expedient coming back to bite us in the ass!

 

Ah, yes. 10 more minutes with a search engine. Amazing what you can find out there. This one's from Newsweek.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5092776/site/newsweek/

"More worrisome, critics say, is that the Pentagon is investigating itself. Maj. Gen. George Fay, the No. 2 in Army Military Intelligence, is in charge of the probe into whether his own intel officers directed the MPs to abuse prisoners. But so far Fay has questioned no one above the rank of colonel, military and other sources say. Among those critical of Fay is Sgt. Samuel Provance, who was formerly in military intelligence at Abu Ghraib and has told reporters in recent weeks that the Army is engaged in a cover-up. 'I had to volunteer more information than was being asked of me [by Fay]. It was like I was adding to his burden,' Provance told NEWSWEEK last week. 'There are so many soldiers directly involved who haven't been talked to.'"

But wait. It gets thicker!

"The Red Cross first warned Joint Task Force-7 of the kind of abuses seen in the prison photos last November, fully two months before Sanchez launched an investigation. The general says he didn't find out about the abuses until January. But two military sources say his deputy, Maj. Gen. Walter Wodjakowski, was present at a meeting in late November to discuss a response to the Red Cross."

"On Capitol Hill, legislators on both sides of the aisle complain testily that the Pentagon has turned into an informational black hole. Some 2,000 out of 6,000 pages were missing from the copy of the Taguba report delivered from the Pentagon to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita last week called this merely an 'oversight.' But among the missing pages were key documents, including the final section of Taguba's lengthy questioning of Col. Thomas Pappas, commander of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, the unit that actually ran the interrogations in Abu Ghraib Block 1A when the abuses occurred. Sources say Pappas gave Taguba a detailed account of why he believed that 'policies and procedures' at Abu Ghraib 'were enacted as a specific result' of recommendations made by Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander at Guantanamo. Miller denies that he exported to Iraq techniques used on Qaeda and Taliban suspects at Gitmo. But Pappas even had some documents to buttress his case, sources say, including one titled 'Draft Update for the Secretary of Defense.'"

There's a whole lot more information that's pretty damning to lots of people above staff seargent. But I know that you guys aren't going to read everything that I copy onto this forum. I suggest that you read the article and do a search yourself, if you're still under the opinion that there's no cover-up going on.

 

After you do the search engine bit, you have to do some thinking too. I have been through this a million times and seen people cut and paste the same stuff over and over again.

Selling E Coli is not selling chemical weapons. Selling anthrax is not selling chemical weapons. Selling Chlorine is not selling chemical weapons. Selling chemical weapons is selling chemical weapons.

Everything you list has a peaceful and legitimate purpose. Many of the things the US is blamed for selling Iraq the US is also blamed for NOT selling to Iraq under sanctions.

Nobody sold Saddam chemical weapons. He developed them himself.

Furthermore, our relationship with Bin Laden was that he was a recipient of some aid from Pakistan's ISI which itself was a recipient of some aid from the CIA. Even Bin Laden himself was more of a middleman/wholesaler than frontline guy. He was there before we arrived and he was still there after we cut him off. We did not create him and I find evidence that we "trained" him very hard to come by. Trained him to what? Ambush an armoured convoy? So what? Who cares?