Green Spirituality - a rant

I think your whole understanding is flawed and based on a spurious concept of God.
Nothing more to add to that.

 

The idea of a God who punishes etc is like a hangover from the middle ages.
The laws of nature will 'punish' us however if we flout them, as modern industrial capitalism does.
The kind of determinism proposed by Kharakov would make us simply puppets. As well as having no will, we would also have no responsibility. (an attractive idea to some) It is simply illogical to say then that God puishes. Why would he punish an unconscious puppet? If he does everything, he'd be punishing himself. And also, it makes a complete nonsense of any idea of moral action.
But actually, I think we do have free will and choice, and God wants us to exercise it. If we fuck up, it is as I say, the laws of nature that will inflict 'punishment'.

 

You're right.

 

That makes no sense. Puppets do not feel what is done to them. We do. We are not just puppets, although our emotional 'strings' are obviously pulled by what God does.

Sorry, you just aren't thinking logically. God does everything and wants us to desire God to behave in certain ways. God arises the desires within us, but must temper these desires with pain so that we do not become too attached to a specific thing (such as cocaine or heroine). To really enjoy something and still be willing to try something new a child must be pushed away from desiring one thing. Punishment (pain) is to make us not attached (buddha knew this) and be willing to experience the variety of joys that God brings us, despite the greatness of each.

Learn non attachment via contemplation of suffering...

Not at all. The desire for moral action is enhanced by witnessing the outcome of immoral action. God causes 'immoral' action to make you feel good about the 'moral' actions that God carries out.

Blind as a bat. The comments God makes through 'you' contrast the truth very well, and I enjoy them for that reason.

God shows you the laws of nature to cause you to desire God to behave in a certain way. You know that driving your car into a wall will cause certain things to happen, so you do not have the silly childish desire to drive into a wall (like some teenagers do...). Since you are not attached to the silly desire to cause havoc, God does not have to cause havoc to satisfy your soul. This restraint that is built within your soul tempers your appetites (such as your desire to be kind to the environment), so that when God acts in a certain way with the body you are in, you will feel good about it (recycling, getting a hybrid car, nailing spikes in trees, etc.).

Anyway, it is God that inflicts punishment to mold your desire for God to behave in certain ways. The possibility and knowledge of punishment makes you enjoy it when God doesn't drive you into a wall. Of course, every soul has to experience some punishment so that it learns not to desire God to do certain things. God is simply focusing our desire on what God intends to do via punishment.

 

Bad static there.

 

If God does everything, then clearly he isn't desirous of us behaving in any way at all, since we don't do anything.
It's total nonsense.
I'm really not interested in your delusions K. If you think concern over the environment, or the experience of oneness with nature simply show lack of faith in your God, then so be it. I have no interest in any more of this.

 

Yeah, I said God wants us to desire God to behave in certain ways. Not "God desires us to behave in certain ways." Totally different.

Wrong. You'll learn.

I am interested in yours. They provide an interesting contrast to the truth.

You know, that's because God cause you to not desire it at this time. God will lead you into something else to occupy you until you are ready for the truth.

Catch you on the flip side! L8r...

 

"Wrong. You'll learn."

its funny, ive never come accross another person with quite the same beliefs as you. Perhaps youre the only one whos got it right. =o
Then, if you dont teach us, who will? Youre not doing a very good job as it is =(

 

I've stated my position that the environment is issue no. 1, and that we have to act using our conscious volition to change the whole situation. I have also said that for the future, forms of spirituality which embrace our oneness with nature are needed, and that those which suppoert the rape of the environment are obselete and dangerous.
You've said you disagree.
So both sides have been put, and I leave it for others to decide for themselves who is right and who is wrong.
I have no intention of getting into a slanging match.

 

You might be right.

Probably.

I don't know. Maybe God?

Yeah, I am not very good at anything I do. Sorta below average emotional intelligence, can't hold a job or get promotions, couldn't make it through college, dropped out of high school, hung out with strippers and junkies, smoked crack, etc.

Probably makes me the best person (among those you know) to take advice from.

You ever see that TV series "Sledgehammer"? (it was on during the 80's, someone had to have seen it...)
This totally moronic cop (the star) had this thing he said before he fucked up "Trust me, I know what I'm doing."

Well, to repeat another enlightened individual "Trust me, I know what I'm doing"

 

For some reason, something tells me you indeed havent figured out what is unknowable. am i crazy?

 

Perhaps that is best for you. Nature is far more maleable than God, for Nature is God decieving men into thinking they have their own power. God pretending to be nature comes with a price that you should know, guilt over the exploitation of others and nature. There is no avoiding that (God will always portray the 'natural world' as one of exploitation, for you are exploiting God).

You do what you want, after all, it is what you were made to do.

I generally like reading what you have to say. I did this time as well.

What a man writes and does shows what lies within his heart, whether it be darkness or light. Those who do not know God have a care in their hearts, but their love is attrubuted to something that does not love them, as the love that God shows them is attributed to that which God loves them with, whether it be man, women, child, or nature.

Unrequited love. Many stories about that, always ends in tragedy for some reason.

 

Not at all. Nothing I know is unknowable.

 

Haha, who here believes in God/Goddess/All That Is and I am that I am???

Haha, silly people giving away all their power to false gods who only want to strip and destroy, who want exinction instead of change, growth, and evolution.

I wonder how much you know about dream weaving and returning power unto you, Kharakov. I wonder how much you have been walked upon and crushed in this lifetime and all your other lifetimes, to believe something is more powerful than you or how much you have crushed others wills and desires with the belief you were better than them, more than, and didn't want to listen to their emotions and desires.

Hahaha, like the Earth is not conscious, like the Earth is a useless, soulless shell. She is conscious, she is GOD, along with all the Nature kingdoms, mineral, herb, tree, animal, the 4 legged, 2 legged, those that swim and those that crawl or slither. Those who understand the energy and potency would understand this.

Maybe you do not have a clear pathway to Soul, as Soul believes in it's power and false gods believe in hoarding it.

Namaste
Francine

 

That is so beautiful Francine.

 

Dear Kharakov-

Much as I disagree with your views, and find the way you express them a bit intense and frankly offensive at times, there is nonetheless something I like about you. I can't put you out of my heart. But I don't want to argue over basic questions like free will vs. predestination. In part, what I'm trying to say here is that there just isn't time for that.
If you don't accept a green agenda, then I'm sorry. I think you should look at this again.
Myself I think we can be proactive in our own right, and still be in complete harmony with the Divine. I don't actually think - I know this is true.
As I've said, and others have said too, the Earth herself is holy. She is our mother. And as William Blake said 'everything that lives is holy'. What I'm trying to say in this thread is let's begin to respect what is holy. Let's begin to re-vision our whole approach to the world we find ourselves in. Each plant spieces we have destroyed forever in the Amazon basin was holy. A thing unique - a miracle. Let's just try to see that, to put it in legal jargon, we have a 'duty of care' towards this beautiful world which is our home.

 

And honestly...who doesn't love trees? I would be very upset if there were no more trees in the world to shade, and give oxygen...and just plain be beautiful.

 

Sadly Nicole, I fear you'd be more than upset if there were no more trees - you'd be dead, along with all other humans and animals.

 

And that's the more morbid way of looking at it...

 

I get cool dream visions often. Actually, I had the sweetest soul stirring experience at 4am this morning (someone else already talked to me about dreams without prompting today too) that left a sweetness and ache within me... Then I lay in bed for a while and felt hungry and full at the same time, which made me giggle, because I had been thinking about desiring something and having what I desire at the same time and the whole situation was simply wonderful and giggly.

Yeah, me try not to walk on God's toes cuz God is sweet.

Not at all. Lots of souls in the earth. God holds us up.