experiment

look if youve ever lived a moment of your life whereu could feel and sense in every way the energythat was superpulsating refracting and piquantly so seemingly focused but paradoxicaly freeform .....youd know it but describe it perhaps differently

 

Nuclear physicists such as Fritjov Capra (The Tao of Physics) demonstrate that quanta indeed have unique connected intelligent responses. Beginning with the "particle/wave" attributes of photons, which only demonstrate either particularity when being tested for. So when photons are given the option of being particles or waves, they demonstrate both simultaneously, and when being tested for either particle or wave attributes exclusively, they demonstrate one or the other, but not both. Similarly, various quanta accomodate spacial adjustment requirements immediately and not subject to any time-driven cascade as once thought. So immediate in fact that it is believed that quanta communicate at speeds far in excess of the speed of light.
** note that physicists use the term "communicate" when refering to the appearance, disappearance, or presence of qanta within a (unified) field.
I also recently read a similar phycisicts dissertation that strongly supported the 'consciousness' of inert matter claim, but cannot remember the reference.
So my take is that a consciousness pervades entirety. It is what 'primitive' cultures tuned in to in order to acquire nature knowledge, which over time has become the "R" word religion.
Bach flower remedies were discovered by bach asking plants to tell him what they could be used for by meditating next to them and receiving the answers (ask and it shall be given!)
Indians of the Amazon likewise commune with the nature kingdom and receive sacred wisdom knowledge.
All this seems to come together in a living dynamically inter-connected universe that, if connected with and revered, gives its all. It follows that only those who connect can benefit. Those who do not connect must rely upon those who do, can, or will connect, thereby causing "mystery" or "religion".
Hope that makes sense in the context of the thread ~ went off into the world of mind for a sec.

 

yes that made alot of sence & jives with my own feelings on the subject
it is interesting to note here however that not 1 person has even attempted to explain or rationalize the possibility of a more christian type philosophy, or the philosophies of any of the majotr religions..it just goes to proveat least to my mind that all things can be explained with thought except those things that we are told to just beleive
& without the mumbo jumbo of brainwashing sacred texts, theyre arguments fall to peices

 

maybe its cause you make claims that if an agnostic or athiest or, well i think it was any non-christain becomes president of the US, that the christains will try to assasinate him...

 

isnt that most likely true?
c'mon..think about it..if they bomb doctors who do abortions, what would they do to a president who legalied gay marriages, or pot, ..or the big 1, made it impossible for candidates to be bought by religios organizations

but thats off topic

 

That's like asking what the nature of circular things are, based on square conceptions.

God, the divine, consciousness, The One, universal force.... this is non-logical in nature, it can't be described (at least not fully) by logic. as the Tao Te Ching says, "the Tao that can be talked about is not the real Tao". It's a symbol of the Tao, but not the Tao itself. Words, logic, thought, this is all symbolic in nature, abstractions, not the thing itself. Since "god" or whatever you want to call it is the Whole, the Universe, the One that has no comparison, it can't be described (because description is based on words/language, which is relative. the Holy is absolute). This means even the holy scriptures (pick your religion, i mean all of them) are not the Truth, but a description of it. You can say the words all you want, but they aren't IT. Worshipping the scriptures is like climbing a signpost, rather than following where it's pointing.

 

absolutely
this is what i've said over & over, the devine is by its very nature unknowable & unnamable & those who claim to know the truth are committing the ulimate blasphemy..every religion might have little sparks of truth in them, but ultimately in theyre rigidity they only serve to keep you from real understanding
sure you can spout the words out in your sleep quoting verse after verse..even convince yourself you "feel gods pressence" or claim to witness miracles (i had 1 guy say that & i asked him what miracles, & he described a dozen everyday random occurrances that were basicaly the same as things i "witnessed" yet becaus he beleived in god to him they wre miracles to everyone else they wre everyday life) ok i lost my train of thought here..oh yea..these feelings are imaginry tricks of the mind to justify an increasingly unbeleivable faith in the least probable answer to the ultimate question

sorry if i babbled a bit

 

but i still would hope 1 of these people who flood the forums with thoudsands of bible quotes would have the courage to at least try

 

There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy.
- William Shakesphere

The universe is not only queerer than we imagine; it is queerer than we CAN imagine.
- A well-known quantum physicist (somebody help me here!)

As a child I had (and still have) a very logical mind and a fascination and aptitude for mathematics, Most of my early conceptions of God and Ultimate Reality were based on mathematical thinking, and they continue to ring true for me today. You might say I am a Pythagorean. I will attempt to explain some of my thoughts, insights and conclusions:

If we live in an infinite universe, it surely includes God (any God we may choose to worship!)

If we live in a finite universe, there must be a "God"; an ultimate decision-maker who determines what "exists" in this finite universe and what does not. I have personally now concluded that if we do live in a finite universe, it is part of an infinite universe.

The most powerful tool we have discovered for understanding and successfully interacting with the physical universe, even more powerful than common sense, is Mathematics. I believe, with Stephen Hawkings, that when we study Mathematics we glimpse the mind of God.

In mathematics, existence is not an arbitrary property but a formal statement. Mathematics allows for two different definitions of existence: Something exists if it is created by a formal structure - or - something exists if it is consistent with a formal structure. Mathematicians consistently prefer to use the wider definition of existence, assuming that something may exist even if it cannot be created; i.e. A 20-degree angle (the trisection of an equilatoral triangle) cannot be created using the tools of Euclidean Geometry, bur it is generally recognised that such an angle exists - and indeed must exist or else geometry would be discontinuous!

I believe that existence is a formal property and that everything that can be conceived as logically consistent with a greater pattern that includes us has just as much claim to existence as we do. This includes God, angels and archangels, gods and goddesses, fairies and sprites, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!

The question becomes a pragmatic one - Since we humans came up with the concept of "existence" to begin with, to what extent is it meaningful and helpful for us apply this concept? I would submit that since a great many people find God to be both meaningful and helpful in understanding their own experience, and since God's existence cannot be denied on logical grounds, we must grant God existence!

How one answers the question "Does God exist" depends as much on how one defines existence as on how one defines God.

The second law of thermodynamics (entropy) tells us we can never go back to a simpler time. Closed systems inevitably grow more complex and ineffable over time. This is because every present moment contains the past as a simpler version of itself.

The sum total of reality includes not only the tiny corner of the space-time-continuum we can perceive with these meager bodies, but the endless possibilities of pattern and chaos - imaginable and unimaginable. Just as the geometry of the Triangle is included in that of the Icosahedron, just as the past is contained within the present, there are vast intelligences in higher dimensions that include us - body and soul - which are at once our context and our destiny. Everything we can imagine (and many things we can't) is real at some level, some level in which we ourselves share existence, and our existence on that level is looking back here and laughing at our childishness!

 

ok,if i understand you correctly, god exists because we can imagine the existance of god, & beleive in that existance, so that would mean all imagined forms of god existy and can be seperate & one in the same at the same time..that too jives with my personal philosophy
so far everyone who has posted here has done a very good job of applying thought & logic & hads been very thought provoking & as far as i can tell being that i'm barely able to count to 20 without taking off my socks (j/k) essentialy right
but i still would love to see just one of the cambels or jesusdied4u or jerry's out there (the bible thumpers) to take a shot at explaing why theyres is the 1 true faith
forgive me if i misunderstoof any of your meaning

 

that quote was by john haldane.

Anyways, in my opinion, mathematics is a very precise way of saying something, but it isn't the thing, it's an abstraction. Quantum Physics is supposed to be one of the most accurate theories we have, and is generally seen as being "right", but no one can understand it...so what good does it really do us? We set out to understand the universe, but found that though we could describe it with math, we will never understand it that way. Science will never give us understanding...only knowledge.

I'd rather meditate than study Trig or Calculus, haha. But hey, if it works for you, I guess I can't say anything against it. Different minds understanding in different ways, it's all good

 

in other threads i personaly invited some of the bible quoters to come here & express theyre beleifs, but i think theyre too scared or incapable of explaining theyre beliefs when they cant just through verses & dogma in your face to explain theyre rather narrow mindedveiws i think everyone whos applied thought to the subject hasa much wider perspective to draw on..i still hope some do accept the challenge though..either for pure entertainment value (a good laugh) or to finaly get some pure insight into the subject..just once i would love a reasonable explanation why christianity makes sence..but you all hav given very good explanations of why my concepts make sence so thanks

 

Actually, they probably think you're stupid for asking them to not mention the key part of their spiritual life. I'd be put off if someone told me to defend my spirituality, but said I couldn't mention meditation or consciousness. What would be the point for me to come to their thread?

I don't mean to call you stupid, don't take it that way. I agree with you (as should be obvious by now) that God does not live in a book. At least not exclusively...if the universe IS God (as I believe) the book is god...but so is everything else.

 

the fleas on riley the dog are god ....and poor jesus , if there ever was one and he was a nice guy .they have comitted every unnatural sadistic atrocity you could think of in his name . the hatefull sorry small minded bastards .

 

did it ever occur to you that they just aren't online?

or maybe its cause you say that Christains are going to kill you, and carry on and such

...maybe they just dont want to be a part of it

this is probobly one of the last times i will post in your threads

 

if you remember correctly that thread wasspecificaly about why according to theyre thoughts sometimes its ok to kill aslng as its in gods name & that has no real relevence here so why bring that up here when u couldsa brought it up there?\
was i being unfair in anything i said?

 

yes think yur right about everything, except the psart about the stupid factor, i admit i'm not the smartest guy around, but ik dont exactly think theyre scared of my stupidity, i think theyre scared of the prospect of not being able to justifuy themselveslogicaly..& i['m not trying to dspute theexistance of 1 god over anothr, just question the circulat logic used to "prove" hisexistance.. the argument tha the book exist which means god exists cause god caused the book to be wtritten to prove his existance..whichj came first the begining of the universe or 1st page of the bible (chicken or egg)

 

that was beautiful. everybody read it again. it deserves a second round.

 

ok, let me use an analogy...

lets say you have a puppy, and each time you call it over, and it comes, you kick it...pretty soon it will not want anythign to do with you...

im not saying that the people you want to discuss things with are avoiding you, or in any way that you are figurativly kicking them...but when you make posts like the one i quoted, it sure as hell makes me want to avoid your threads and posts...

BTW: if you wanted to have serious discussions with people, i would suggest not taunting them for not posting in your thread within a few hours

 

i hope you dont avoid me i've enjoyed your posts alot, but yes i supose i see your point

i did mean this thread to be a challange to creatively discuss or define god, religion whatever, but free of all the bombardment of qoutes & doctrines that cause so much division, i have a feeling that underlying all beleives there s something entirely odvios & real & definable & through siscussing it without the constrains of predefined criteria & doctrine we may come closer to a real universal truth..