Agnosticism is a reaction to a statement. It did not make the statement or even imagine it. Others did before we were born. God exists. The statement may be entirerly false. [ or not :sunglasse] Occam
Thumontico Do you suggest all humans know this? It may be 'so what to you' It is not 'so what' to the person who has never had anyone give a shit enought to explain anything. And is alone in path into a hostile and little undertood future. Occam remembers when he was 18 and knew only enought to pretend to understand what love and reason actually meant. And a philosophy was what someone else said about reality. Occam
'Where there is great doubt, there will be great awakening; small doubt, small awakening; no doubt, no awakening.' Zen proverb ‘Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with. His mind was created for his own thoughts, not yours or mine. ‘ Henry S. Haskins " If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves. " Thomas Paine " If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't. " Lyall Watson ‘My sense of God is my sense of wonder at the universe.’ Albert Einstein ‘God does not play dice with the universe.’ Albert Einstein ‘99.999% of what affects our reality will be undetectable by our senses. Man must learn to think for himself rather than follow blindly what he has been taught.’ Buckminster Fuller " I have said ye are Gods, all of you are children of the most high.†Psalms, Ch. 82, Verse 6
Blackguard... Cool And from the fringe "reality is that which, when we stop believing in it, does not go away" P K Dick "99% of everything is crap" T Sturgeon [which sort of supports the one by Dick] Here, just thought of a cheesy one "Pearls of wisdom form in the oyster of understanding, within the sea of information" Occam
I find your practice of posting in the third person to be somehow comforting, it is just my gut feeling, but it makes me imagine that your self image is one of content modesty, disassociated from personal ego. I have no good basis for this view, it just feels that way to me, and I tend to side with whatever my heart tells me. I have always been on the fringe, and so your reply was poignant to me. Bill Hicks once said the miracle of birth is about as amazing as eating a meal and then excreting a turd. Crude, but thought provoking....to my warped mind. I saw a shirt that made me smile. "'God's busy right now, can I help?' Satan" I admire the people who make a habit of believing and trusting others first, and only changing that view when it is proven to be false. John Lennon said that to him dragons, and fairies, and dreams are just as real to him as anything else. Sorry, but I cannot recall or find his exact quote which is more detailed. 'If it is true for you, then it is true.' L. Ron Hubbard I seem to always be getting more convinced that the power to reason does not make sense. Humanity seems to cherish reason, and look where it has gotten us. Native Indian philosophers have said that reason is really a curse which only makes it harder for us to live in harmony with nature. I have not been able to disprove that yet, but instead have only found more reasons to support the idea over the years. 'The more I learn, the less I know.' Peter Gabriel
A man, after he has brushed off the dust and chips of his life, will have left only the hard, clean question: Was it good or was it evil? Have I done well - or ill? -- John Steinbeck It seems sort of a cop out to involve or invoke "God". We are what we do.
Yes it is. But by now, the tumor has taken control of one's entire brain, and has become the brain itself. Time to remove the tumor ...
*gets anxious* I'm so confused by an agnostics way of thinking I really am... It's been explained to me about 1000000 times, but I still DON'T process it, and I think I don't process it, because I can't see it from the same angle. Or maybe it's because you all ask way too many questions on god itself--- It makes my brain want to explode....>poor little simple minded girl here<
The problem isn't with Agnosticism, the problem is in the differing perceptions of 'God'. God could be a creative force; a pantheistic God (OF consequence or WITHOUT consequence); and the ever popular transcendental, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, hypocritical Judeo/Christian and Islamic God. The genuine agnostic for all intents and purpoes is an atheist. In terms of values, ethics, and vocation the Agnostic, lacking certain supernatural guidance, elects to create their own. The genuine agnostic does not fit in as WORTHY of God's (Judeo/Christian/Islamic) kingdom of heaven. With doubt such that one would catagorize themselves as 'Agnostic', one does not meet the qualifications for salvation. This is why I don't think genuine agnostics are just trying to cover their ass.
They have seen all the data, pro and against theism and atheism, and they are not swayed either way. That is prudence. They cannot make an uninformed choice, and in something as importance as one's spirit, or being, making a guess and just going with one or the other would be foolhardy. I call myself an apathetic ignoramagnostic believer. I believe in the spiritual realm, firmly, but I can't say I understand it, don't care all that much that I don't understand it, and I don't need or want to convert anyone else to my view. So I am spiritually apathetic, theologically ignorant, and yet deeply faithful. And I got here by reading dozens of holy books, philosophers, and psychologists. Works for me.
Blackguard Truth,, occam started this reply many times, and then started again. And finally can only say, wellmet my brother. As to the statement on reason.. Understood. It 'seems' to have resulted in a human world that is far from reasonable. Yet occam cannot agree. What drives us to action? To do? Not reason. The gun does not kill. The man that pulls the trigger does. If we WANT to drive in a nail. Should we blame the hammer if we total our thumb? The 'technological world' is not a result of reason. It is a result of desire and emotion using this powerfull tool called 'analytical reason' to create worldly power and worldly goods for humans who desire such. Thus sturgeons comment "99% of everything is crap." It sounds right because in this world we have made. According to a long list of what is rationally and racially important. 99% of everything humans do or say IS crap. Just watch jerry springer. Or the news. Occam suggests that if humans were truely rational as a race. Not only would this world be a paradise, we would right now be creating new gardens of eden across the stars. And be actively searching for other beings who are rational. But, humanity is still a child, even though some of it is more mature than the rest. Occam
Paul Occam asked himself that question. And still does. Stienbeck couches the question in morality , good or bad. But what is a 'worthy life' How else besides morality can can we define it? Occam
Blackguard Occam believes this 'reality' as we so minimally percieve it. [we see just a fraction of the surface of it..a simple fact] The observed universe Is but one facet of a reality beyond our minds to understand. And that this facet is integral to all others in the totallity. Which is another way of saying he knows very little. And is not afraid to state it as fact. A single truth does not set you free, knowing there is truth, does. Occam
Apples Thumontico is quite correct. What do you call a god? Occams concept of a god has little to do with the stories about god religion proposes as truth. Try thinking of a god that wants no souls in his thrall Wants to punnish none. Does not live in a kingdom of heaven. Cares not for local moral laws. In other words, not a tyrant, but a reasonable being. A wise one. Then say. "is such possible" Occam says yes Occam
Being agnostic, to me, is a lot like being undeclared in college. You do not declare belief in a god, but you do not declare a disbelief. You are undecided. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp.
Meh, I grasp it, but can't see the point of view if that makes sense. The issue with me is I am a very black and white sort of person... with a few exceptions... I dont have very many grey areas, thoughts, or ideas to my life. And agnosticism is a very grey area.
