Before I begin my point of view, I'd like to make clear that when I've had arguments with theists before. They've claimed to have seen angels while ill in the hospital or a light shinning down on them while they were passed out. I don't doubt that they have seen any of this, but I think it was a hallucination. My sister is a psychology major and was telling me that when your body temperature is high it can cause hallucinations. I've heard of people using hallucinagens to recieve spiritual messages. I do recall reading that LSD rises your body temperature and magic mushrooms rising your body temperature. Does anyone on these forums use psychedellic plants for spiritual reasons or heard of people claiming to seen any of the two I named in my second sentence?
I've known people who claimed to see devils and similar things when they were tripping, but none of them actually thought they were seeing anything real. They did realize they were tripping... I don't personally know anyone who trips for spiritual reasons, but I can see how that all comes about. I have also read a lot about past cultures that would use drugs as part of spiritual rituals, but that is all common knoweldge. I guess I don't have anything new for you. There are a couple of people on the religious forums (a few I can think of on the christianity forum specifically) who have claimed to see deamons and stuff. Maybe you should post over there and see what kind of response you get.
Pop_terror Could be,, considering that when you see a tree and call it a solid thing. You actually percieve reflected visible light from a structure that is 99.999% 'emptyspace'. Just like our bodies and the earth.. We and our world are etherial clouds,, near phantoms. The only 'real' things are black holes.. So real we cannot even see them with our phantom eyes. And they are slowly eating this phantom reality we call the universe. Making it themselves, making everyhing real.:sunglasse Occam
I've mentioned something like this before. When people are ill, they will "trip" per se... However, those who are religiously inclined, tend to assume it's some sort of message "FROM THE HEAVENS!" I disagree. My question is... if you gave a hardcore Christian a hallucinagen... and say they saw a purple pig bopping around, would that be a sign of GOD?! *Rolls on the floor laughing* Everyone seems to forget that the mind is a very powerful thing, and that no matter how "sane" you claim to be, it can and will escape from you at any time--- during illness, during stress, etc. But the problem I have is when someone feels the need to make an excuse for it such as a sign from above-- Just admit it, your brain malfunctioned and you saw unusual things... nothing wrong with that. Hell, I've seen stuff, without the help of a hallucinagen, while I was ill. Almost everytime I'm ill I see black shadows out of the corner of my eye...Oh! I forgot! Those are demons! I must be damned! *laughs hysterically*
Apples Yeh, occam sees them as well. They are called the 'funny state before we fall down and gitter like bugs' Or The thing that happens before we 'spontaneously combust' Or The thing religion calls an epiphany Or Nothing that is real. Occam
Usually for me it's the first one, lol. I see all kinds of funky things before I pass out. To me, to disregard, and not believe in spirits, ghosts, or demons is safer for the individual. It only leads to fear. My mother can't watch the Exorcist without getting paranoid---and why can I? Because I simply don't believe that such things exist. Fear is a barrier, an ultimate burden to living a full life. Sure, I have fears of my own--- but if I had a fear so incredibly extreme such as that, I truly believe it would interfere with the quality of my life. For fucks sake, my fear of bees already does enough of that. :-D
Well said, A+O. I have often said that if I were ever single again, I'd never consider re-marriage. I take it back.
Apples Occam finds 'demons' and 'ghosts' as horrific as he does a stain on a new shirt.. Or forgetting to take the 'green circles of shit' out of the big mac before you eat it. [aside from the big mac being a circle of shit in itself] Almost brings him to his knees in terror The only evil occam fears is the acts of people. For that is ALL EVIL IS. There are no demons that posess little girls and make them weild a cross in a sexual way,[ouch] or make their heads do a 180. Beasts from hell in satans service? LOL..what a crock of shit. No different AT ALL to fearing the god of lightning during a heavy storm. Yet we all have a fear that comes to the fore in dreams.. Occams is a strange one of being crushed by really big rocks. Weird eh? Never been close to such a situation..so where does it come from? Bees he can understand. Little 'apples' aged 6 runs in fear from the bees that bring mojo pain. Fire ants did that to occam once.. but he forgave them because it was he who stepped on their city. [not in a godzilla way, but in ignorance] Occam PS. Hendrix was way cool Laughing Sams Dice. And the stars that played with them.
I have tripped. I have hallucinated. And I believe friends of mine who told me of times when spirits visited them. Our lives are our own. You may not have real spirits in your life, I am firmly convinced I do in mine. Good ones. And lots of them. Never seen them though, but that does not make me doubt what I believe at all. I haven't seen gravity or magnetism either.
That's my point though, I'm honestly not frightened by the idea or thought of demons. Perhaps souls exist, and I'm the only human without one. LMAO. I understand what you're saying... where does the fear of demons come from if they do not exist.... But then my question is why don't I fear them? You're leaving lots of room for the possibility of things to exist, that you are unsure of...as any agnostic would... But, my brain, heart, and body is completely CLOSED OFF to the idea of the possibility of those things to exist, therefore I don't fear them...and that's where I think we differ. Your fear of demons, may derive from the fact that you leave the door open in your mind for them to exist. I do not, therefore I do not fear them.
