I'm not saying anything I haven't said before, just reitterating it. What's wrong with religion? Please enlighten me. Are the church goers you know SUCH bad people? Has Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, theism in general actually done anything repressive to YOU? Yes, lots of shite has been done in the name of religion (and gets done in the name of religion). Yes you get nutjobs. So what? Take religion out of the picture would the world be all that different in terms of that? The nutjobs would rant about something else. Wars over extramarital affairs rather than gods. I'm sick of seeing this "we are the repressed minority" bullshit coming from the secularists here. You are not the repressed minority, you are the majority. Most of the western world (and judging from your "location" thingy, most of you are westerners, not to mention you have regular enough access to the internet enough to feel it's worth joining a form) is secular - as I just said in another post, religion is also part of culture, so the fact that 90% of America (or whatever it is) goes to church doesn't make them the hardline believers, doesn't even make them Christian. So I ask again - what's wrong with religion? Blessings Sebbi
I hate the whole "oh they aren't real christians" crap. Look, the way I see it is this: If they believe in god and jesus, think they are saved, think they are going to heaven, and call themselves christian then it means they are christian. We can't swap them to the secular side for the sake of argument just because they don't act like what some think are perfect christians. But Sebbi, I get what you are saying. People should judge others on an individual level.
You want to know why there is so much venom? You want to know why Christians get bashed so much? You want to know why we are the repressed minority? PEOPLE SHOULDN'T JUDGE OTHERS AT ALL!!! But at least now we see some true colors. Thank you for enlightening us. Please keep your "judgemental" Christian values away from our bodies, out of our home, off our children, out of our schools and out of our lives.
Sera - I am not talking about the moderate believers - I am actually talking about the many people who go to Church every Sunday but do so because of tradition, out of culture. You know you're Homer Simpson type who goes not because he's interested in what the preacher has to say but because that's what society, on one level, excepts; or because at Church there is a certain sense of community; or because they've been going to church ever since they were kids and returning reguarly is fulfilling to the extent that it's returning to something familiar. I agree totally - the criteria for a "true Christian" should be broad, but being Christian by heritage and being Christian by faith are two seperate things (though, of course, not mutually exclusive - that would imply that the only true Christians are the born agains). The same applies to pretty much every other religion that is dominant in any country. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism - in all I have come across non-believing muslims/jews/hindus/buddhists/etc. Blessings Sebbi
People are always going to judge. We always size up others, their ideals, their actions, their words. We judge when we condemn criminals, and we judge when we praise heroes. We cannot relate to eachother without judging. Judging who would be a good friend, who is worth our trust, worth our time, worth our hand in marriage, or judging who is unsafe, unfriendly, untrustworty. It is impossible for us to not judge, to say or think such a thing is silly. A desire for a utopia that never will or can exist. And BTW, I am not a christian. Perhaps you mis-judged me?
Religion is Slavery. Religion is based on guilt (sin), fear (hell, devil, demons), and heirarchy (gods, angels, pastors, etc.) Religion is divisive. Religion has caused more wars, slaughters and oppression than anything else even The State (unless they are united...then whoa!) Religion is close-mindedness and feelings of absolutionism. Religion is basing one's reality on mythology and superstition.
Sera, while I was responding to your post, I wasn't necessarily talking to you. If you took it that way I sincerely apologize. The entire notion of judging people is endemic to the followers of the god of Abraham, even though they allegedly live by the statement "Judge not lest you be judged". I do pay attention to these forums, but I did not know that you were not a Christian. And finally, when you say "We" you're not including me I hope. I generate an incredible amount of sarcasm and get a fair amount of venom in return, but I truly love my fellow human if for no other reason than the hilarity of humanity and the human condition. Anyone who can make me laugh as much as all of you do is worthy of my adoration and so much more. Organized religion is a complete waste of time. Disorganized religion is infinitely more fun.
Slavery is when someone is forced into servitude. When people "serve god" they do so willingly and thus it is not slavery. I'm not questioning that there is a definite element of that in mainstream religion. I'm saying that that is people being people - egits being egits. See above - so far you've said the same thing just rephrased it. Well this gives me the impression you read my original post. Why? What makes you say that? Because your only exposure to religion is the religious right? Probably. Go to Sri Lanka. Go to Israel. Go to Persia (not a single country anymore I know). Meet real life muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians, then tell me they are bad people - that their lives are dominated by "close-mindedness and feelings of absolutionism". Sure meet the nutjobs as well - you can tell me what will strengthen your arguement and leave out the rest. What's wrong with mythology? - mythology is inspiring. Superstition I'll grant you - I don't like superstition but it normally has it's roots in something (e.g. Kosher on hygene etc). Blessings Sebbi
I've met muslims, hindus and christians who fit the bill. Dominated by archaic belief/control systems. Closed minded, stupid. When you ask if they're 'bad' people because of that, I guess in some ways they are. For one thing, they're passing on the same narrow little thing to their children, thus denying them the freedom to decide for themselves. They may even deny them to right to learn the truth about the universe as revealed by science. And many are content to just go along with whatever their governments or big business wants. They accept wars, environmental damage, human rights abuses etc. So they can't help humankind to progress. Often, they imagine that god will solve all our problems. And don't forget the people who are dying of AIDS because their church won't let them use condoms.
Religion is just another flag to rally around. Just like nationalism. Both are negetive in my mind. Of course, honest spirituality is fine, and religion can be a part of that (community, ritual, etc), but when things get dogmatic, trouble is sure to follow. Like, most Christians I know are, of course, good people. My whole family, my neighbors, etc. But start them talking about gays, or muslim terrorism, and you get this little glimmer (or sometimes a big blast of light) showing how biased they are. My dad is one of the most religious people I know, but he's still very (I almost hesitate to call it this) hateful towards gays, muslims, and people who live together before marriage (among other things). The sad thing is, this "hate" comes as a result of him "finding god". He reads the New Testament a lot, and other Catholic books, and yet he seems to forget that love is the main thing Jesus talked about. Now, I know it's hard to really live your life as a perfect Christian (using this religion as an example). To be Christ-like means to be, really, a mystic, which is damn hard in our society. But you have all these people reading the Bible, even though it constantly says how important love and acceptance is, and you get all this devisive stuff out of it. Why? Because it's written in the book. they take the letter of the law and miss the spirit of it. They take one verse and go crazy with it (while ignoring others), straining the gnat and swallowing the camel, as it says. This is why dogmatic religions are dangerous. Imposed morals just create inner conflict, because you're always chasing an ideal. I think that the more we read about how perfect we could be, the more we realize how unperfect we are. Of course, this is unconscious, and in the end, it's us judging everyone but ourselves against this holy scripture. Generally, people are going to be good (whether they are religious or not). Religion can help people in their lives. But when the going gets hard, and people start rallying around this or that religion, it turns ugly. Because religious opinions are often held dogmatically as 'The Truth' and everyone else is an evil sinner.
Libertine, Sebbi is right about one thing. People in other countries don't totally base their lives around their religious beliefs. I know that's hard to take since there are people out there willing to vaporize themselves and anyone in their vicinity in the name of the Prophet Muhammad, but it is true. The American religious right are not a good example, but they are all we have to battle at the moment...
This isn't to anyone in particular but to everyone... I believe in "Freedom of religion" the freedom to believe in whatever religion you choose and also the freedom not to believe in any man-made religion.. I will search different religions online & listen to people tell me why they believe in different things....just don't tell me I'm going to hell if I don't agree with you, seeing as that would be a waste of your time cuz I don't believe in hell.
You mean about 'nutjobs'? If so then we'd have to conclude that the hierarchy of the catholic church are such people, since it's them who make the rules that won't allow population control through contraception or people to protect themselves from AIDS. I believe also that in the US in some states, evolutionary theory can't be taught in schools by law, because the christian right control the legislature. So if it's just a few nutcases we're talking about, they are some very powerful nutcases.
Not to mention those holy men in Saudi and elsewhere who hand out sentences like chopping off hands, stoning to death etc.
