The only thing I liked about communism was the idea of sharing land... I mean, it's too fucking expensive nowadays; we recently bought a lot and had a house built, and the lot was $60,000. It's not even ginormous like our last houses (we actually bought a good 3/4 of an acre that was behind it several years before we moved for only $20,000)
there has never been a communist country who has not been under attack by the global capitalist forces trying to protect their wealth and land. people always say some bullshit like "communism doesnt work" but how do we define what works and what does not work? Capitalism definitely is not working... how do we define a working economy? Capitalism benefits at the expense of others and is a good economic system for upholding the already rich and powerful... communism benefits the common man and is often skewed by the dictators that run it and give up on the real communist ideals written by trotsky/marx/lenin... does it not work because the rich do not succeed as much? so much bullshit is talked about communism, but the same responses are gaven out of everyones mouth... we have been conditioned into thinking communism is some great evil.... when it couldnt be further much from the truth... i could argue communism all day, but that is kinda what ive been doi ng ever sense i joined hipforums, and its gotten very tiresome (especially from all the conservative idiots that infiltrate the forums to spread their own personal agenda/propaganda)
fuck yeah bush killa... you got your head on straight... quoting dp... man you got me all fuzzy inside... you got aim or anything? We should keep in touch... there are so many people on these forums that would agree with us, so much more than the ones who smell like bacon... the thing is they are all too tired with the same arguments... the conservative ones are mighty persistant though... you ever post on the dp forums?
i think it would be best if there were a third world war, dozens of civil wars and a world plague at the same time. and all that would be left is a handful of humans who would have to learn to work together to survive.
under capitalism youre likely to be controlled by the corporations, under communism youre likely to be controlled and oppressed by the government. and anarchists think everybody is just gonna drop what their doing and work together in harmony and equallity holding hands under a rainbow. lets get real, this species needs to be driven to the point of extinction to make it wake up. if that happened then the few of humanity left over would learn how to stop murduring each other in self interest or go completely extinct
Western governments are the most corrupt? You dumbass, have you ever even been to a third world country? I told you I've been to Africa--your ignorant opinion has absolutly no merit with me because you're talking about shit you know nothing about. I've been there, I've seen first hand how it really is, while you are just a bored, sheltered "revolutionist" who spends all his time thinking up conspiracy theories about how the western world is evil when in fact you refuse to read up on how corrupt other nations are. I, unlike you, can PROVE that the vast mojority of western nations are NOT corrupt when compared to third world nations.There is a little something called the Corruption Perceptions Index that is put out every year or so which ranks which nations are corrupt. (Don't worry, I didn't expect you to know about it). http://www.sq.4mg.com/corrupt.htm Moron... Using the quote "Ireland for the Irish, Africa for the African, America for the native americans." you DO come across as racist--The KKK also feels that black people should go back to Africa. And Ireland for the Irish?? Oh, so black people shouldn't be allowed in Ireland and white people shouldn't be allowed in the US? In case you didn't know, there are less than 2 million Native Americans left in the US--what, you want us white people to pack up and move back to Europe? What about people like me: I'm Irish, German, and French...so where do I go--Ireland, Germany or France? God, I didn't know it was possible for one person to have such a simple mind... Ever try unity between ALL races? Why should non-white people seperate themselves from white people if color really doesn't matter to you? You act like all non-white people are the same--do you really think Chinese people and Africans are somehow more similar than Africans and Americans? And just because you weren't the first to say it doesn't make the idea any less dumb--hell, I could say the world was flat and I wouldn't be the first person in history to think that way. "Africans for Africa" sounds pretty damn segregational to me... What the hell? In one setence you say that all talented black people should move back to africa and then you say that people should be able to live wherever they want....Guess what? As long as you have the money to move, You CAN live wherever you want!! I could move to Africa tomorrow if I had the money, and don't you think that if black people in America wanted to go back to Africa they would have done so by now? Why doesn't the whole world get behind Africa instead of leaving it up to the black people in America like it's their sole responsibility and obligation? Why the hell do you care what we call them as long as they're not complaining? Shit, you can't complain for someone else when there's no evidence they're even offended by it. Some black people even insist on being called African American instead of being called black. If they don't mind, why the hell should you? When the hell have you ever met a black person who cries himself to sleep every night because he can't go "back" to a place he's never even been to? Most black people are PERFECTLY HAPPY living their lives in the US. It is a proven fact that African-Americans are the RICHEST BLACK PEOPLE ON EARTH! If they want to go back to Africa, then let them--there are even organizations where black people can mail in swabs of their saliva in and the company uses their DNA to tell them what tribes they originated from. Some of those tribes still exist today. They can go back to Africa, but most of them haven't shown an interest, in part because West Africa currently has so many problems. I have two words for you: MOVE ON!! I never said we should forget about slavery, but how the hell can black people move forward if they keep holding grudges about something that happened over 140 years ago? Fortunately for black people, most of them HAVE moved on and forgiven whites and I have never met a black person in the US who still uses slavery to try and induce needless guilt on white people. Bill Clinton even public apologized to African Americans for slavery: If they can forgive and move on, why can't you? Especially when none of it concerns you. Yes, black people who deal crack ARE destroying their own people, but dealing is THIER choice, not "evil whitey's". If you get locked up for ANYTHING you can't vote. Bravo, genius boy. Why are you telling me that? Go tell that to the crack dealers that are destroying their own communities. See the link that I gave you, ignorant child. YES, because THE PAST IS NOT MY FAULT!!! Once again, you have FAILED TO REFUTE the fact that most black people in America don't even feel the need for reparations!! If they don't want it, why the hell should I pay? Here in America, we have laws which say THE SINS OF THE FATHER DON'T CARRY ON TO THE SON! If our government is so intent on killing non-whites, then how the hell do you explain KOSOVO? WWII? WWI? The reason we attack non-white countries more often than white ones is because of what I've been saying all along: Non-white countries are more corrupt and there for more troublesome to our national security!! When the hell did I say I was opposed to debt cancellation? There are also grants avalible that don't have to be repaid. The very fact that you really think the world is black and white PROVES beyond resonable doubt that you are nothing but a sheltered child who has never even seen the real world.
just so you know most non-white countries aren't corrupt, their are alot more white goverments that are. and yes I have been to third world countires, my mom is from Honduras and i've gone ther alot of times and my grand mother has traveled to lots of countries. do black people need reperations? I don't know i'm not black, i'll leave it up to them. should the insane amount od debt owed to the US from central american countries be canceled? YES! the amount of money they owe the US is horrible, i've been to Honduras and neigboring countries and I know most people there have it really bad, my own mother has some pretty fucked up stories from her childhood and she didn't have it anywhere near as bad as some other people. and that site you have, most of the countires set up as "most corrupt" are white goverments, look where Iraq is compared to the US, so that web site didn't hep your argument at all. but the ireland for the irish, afra for the africans, america for the native americans was very fucked up, I don't know what you were trying to say so i'm not saying your a bad person...but i'm part Honduran (meaning i'm Spanish, Mayan and Lencan) i'm also part Scottish, Irish and English. so where the hell would I go? thats alot of different places where i'd belong. but just so you know lots of drugs were intentially distributed to destroy and keep down non-whites and low class white people, our goverment isn;t all sunshine and butterflies.
I never said our government was perfect. And in case you didn't read the list, it is arranged from least corrupt to most corrupt, and 17 out of the top 20 least-corrupt nations are Western nations.
Oh come on people, just settle down a bit. Black and White aren't skin colors and it doesn't matter what tone your skin is... what matters is who you are, what you do, and how you do it. I'm tired off all of the crap around here.... racism, racism, racism. I see it all the time around here and it pisses me off. I'm half indonesian and people don't fuck with me and if someone is half black they'll do it to them. I don't know what the hell those NRA gun-toting conservative pro-confederate flag flyers are trying to do it, but they can do it somewhere else. Blegh... The war is over Jethro, lighten up, this isn't 1865. I don't even want to listen to it on here. I just got home from work. All I wanted to do is check posts and my IMs and take a shower in peace. I'll deal with posts later, i'm going to take a shower and go see Fahrenheit 9/11. ~ George
This is a touchy subject, I think in part because clear definitions are often lacking. So here is my attempt to remedy that. Communism- A state centralized system of distributing resources, historically corrupt, brutal and inefficient. Socialism- A state that allows for some state centralized distrubuting of resources (particuarly things like power, gasoline, massive defence manufacturing, and health care that don't meet free market criteria) but also allows for personal property and a more efficient free market to meet the wants and needs of the population. Capitalism- the often exploitaive system of endowing power to huge private entities. The expense is born out by the public at large for the benefit of a tiny minority of property owners. Laissez faire- The disproved but still embraced theory that an abandonment to forces of financial power at the expense of all others will bring about all remedies to all societal ills. Free Market-A system without pricecaps that allows Supply to meet Demand in the most efficient way possible. Black Market- The system with price caps or other barriers which empowers criminals when Demand stays high and the Supply is artificially low. Communal Living-A successful model (Northern Italy post WWII, Pre-Franco Spain, Iraeli's kibbutzim) for small communitees that want to share thier wealth and live in a freer world w/o a centralized control of resources. Well at least these are my definitions of these terms
Laissez faire - Every time I heard that one in sixth grade, I kept thinking "lesbian"... that's how I remembered it on tests. But that's just me..... ~ George
out of curiosity, who produced that index? because I can assure you it was rich white nations...so that doesn't prove anything at all.
You can assure me? Oh really... http://www.transparency.org/about_ti/index.html Please...assure away.
and how do they decide who is more corrupt? I still think all of that is bullshit, who is to say who is more corrupt than who?
"Karl Marx recognized that workers without a choice are workers in chains. But his idea of breaking chains was for us to depose the pharaohs and then build pyramids for ourselves, as if building pyramids is something we just can't stop doing, we love it so much" (Quinn, Beyond Civilization, 52). Karl Marx wanted to eliminate the Bourgeoisie and make everyone equal, but the principle of the hierarchal system of civilization (capitalism, if you will) remained: people still had to work for food, and someone had to hold the food. The ultimate motivation for all work is food. It's like saying if you don't work to further civilization, you won't have food. The ruling class holds this food (it isn't literally food, but it's money to purchase the food), and when the working class slaves for them they give them food (or money to purchase it). Marx took away those who held the food and that power was transferred to the people, but the people still had to further industry. Since there was no motivation to work, why would the people continue? Tribalism has no industrial or civilizational goals (as opposed to communism) and so people do not need to toil away at the metaphorical pyramids, and they are also equal (as in communism). When you try to escape civilization, you must make a clean sweep. Civilization is a complex formula of programs that fit together into something that is meant to appear to work short-term (emphasize the words "appear" and "short-term" since civilization obviously does not work in the long run). When one program is eliminated and the others are kept, the entire formula falls apart quickly, as opposed to when the original formula would have fallen apart after a longer time period. When the formula is edited, it must be deleted and another one put in (in my opinion, this formula is tribalism). This was the purpose of the Children's Revolution: to walk away from civilization/capitalism into another social system. However, this movement was stifled by the fact that there was no other formula that people could walk into. This must be changed. Corruption has nothing to do with whether or not a social system works; it has to do with whether or not the social system would support/allow corruption. After analysis of tribalism, it can be asserted that it does not support corruption (this is a complex subject, which I will explain only if others are interested, since I am trying not to turn this into a campaign for tribalism but rather an analysis of communism).
Transparency International, list of donors: American International Group, Inc. Arthur Andersen LLP Bank of America Foundation Bechtel Group, Inc. The Boeing Company BP Amoco Bristol-Myers Squibb Company CMS Energy Enron Corp. Exxon Mobil Corporation The Ford Motor Company General Electric Company General Motors Corporation Honeywell International, Inc. J.M. Huber Corporation IBM International Foundation Lockheed Martin Corporation Merck & Co., Inc. Motorola Inc. Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP Reliant Energy Rockwell Texaco Foundation Troutman Sanders LLP United Technologies Corporation Weil Gotshal & Mange I dunno if trust is synonymous with a few of them, but it is the best we got aye.
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." W. Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet I have discussed similar issues with Right Wing Libertarians and found common ground. And that common ground was this, "...the centralized control of resources." Both I,(I'm not a communist , but I'm open to the good ideals in Karl Marx's thesis.) and he would support more "localized control of resources". Now that's possible in this day and age only to a certain degree. Contact with the rest of the world is inevitable. How your tribe, your commune, or your militia compound reacts with the resources provided by the outside and the degree to which you allow outside influences in your group would be for each group to decide. But both would be open to keeping as much within the group and minimizing the portion that goes to a centralized authority. If one were to take these ideas and redo them so tha the left wing rhetoric was replaced with the freedom, and liberty labels that appeal to Right Wing types, one would find more common ground than you think you would. Rural farm communities are extremely victimized by Capitalism. The same corporate entities can control the price the farmer gets for his crop, the terms of his loan, the cost of his equipment. and able to buy his land if he misses one payment. He may be conditioned to hate communism from the word go, but also hates this system that takes his sweat and money and the fruit of his land away and gives it to a centralized corporate system. If you want to see change in our society, I feel that this type of person should not be confronted, but rather reached out to. If the legions of heavily propgandized white working class conservatives were to ever wake up, quit supporting thier corporate masters and quit voting against thier own interests, those private powers controling and exploiting our society would truly be lost! Does this make me a Communist? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not. But what's in a name?
it worked for a while after the russian revolution but it started to spiral out of control from there on.
