Why do we have to pay for everything?

These days women are paid equally for equal work.

This whole "women are paid 75c to the dollar" is a feminist lie.

 

entirely possible. i've never experienced this "unequal pay" thing. and i'm not quite sure about the whole paid maternity leave thing, seriously. if you're not working, why are you getting paid? but in my hasband's company, there's just as many techs in his office that are female as there are male techs. however, in the field the bosses, like when dave was doing it, tended to put the females in safer mapping areas, while the men had the riskier mapping jobs. since the girls were okay with this, they were also okay with gettingpaid somewhat less. they could always opt for the evil neighborhoods if they wanted the same pay. seems pretty reasonable to me.

but if you ask someone out, YOU pay. if i ask someone out, I pay. it's that simple.

 

My dad worked with a guy who said to his new date "We should have dinner, I'm a bit strapped so you pay this time, I'll pay next time" She agreed that was reasonable... so they went out and had a fantastic dinner at a moderately expensive resturaunt....

Two weeks later, he said he was taking her out to dinner to return the favor... He took her to McDonalds for a big mac and thickshake.

needless to say he was dumped... I think thats reasonable, so if its the other way round, theres no reason why its not reasonable to not put up with that shit.
You guys act as if girls are forcing you to pay, theyre not. If you dont want to open your wallet, then dont. By blaming women for your paying, you are giving up your own independence to choose. As soon as you make it your decsion, you regain control over your relationship, and your place in it

 

*sigh* You just don't understand. I'm actually really surprised. I thought that you were all just being thick headed. But I'm starting to realise that women just don't know what it's like to always (all right, not always, just 90% of the time) be expected to pick up the bill, do the messy job, haul that shit around. True, there is a certain amount of personal choice involved in how much I conform to my gender role. But mother culture has subtle ways of making you pay for not fitting in. It's a constant struggle to live outside the box. So it's a little insulting when instead of praise and encouragement when I talk about our problems, I get rants about how it's really our fault and we shouldn't let ourselves be taken advantage of.

Did you read what Unspoken Things wrote? "i never feel i have to pay for everything. but i like doing it because i think its nice. and when going out for a meal its easier if one person pays. even though ive never really had any money it was something ive always done." It's internalised. It's pounded into us from birth that this is our gender role. Not only do others look at us funny when we deviate. We feel funny inside. No amount of anecdotes about women picking up the bill is going to change the fact that generaly, men are expected to.

 

but this is something that is SPECIFICALLY and ENTIRELY within your hands to change. this is not something that you have to do without any choices or options. i'm not going to pat some woman on the head for constantly putting herself in situations where she's taken advantage of, and i'm not going to do the same for you, either. i don't care how internalized people's problems are, once you have a choice, it's YOUR problem. i've been used and abused by men, too, but if i keep making the same choices just because i'm too weak to change them once i know what the problem is, it's my own damned fault. women are working on this aspect of sexualization, too. but at some point in time, it's your choice. do you stand on your own and do what you feel is right, or do you cop out to get laid?

and don't get me started on this whole "expectations" argument again. it's nonsense.

 

RE: True, there is a certain amount of personal choice involved in how much I conform to my gender role. But mother culture has subtle ways of making you pay for not fitting in.

Women get choice.
Men get hassles.

 

whatever. you are so out of it.

 

Really? So I could have stayed home instead of busting my ass to get a degree and a diploma? Instead of moving across the country in pursuit of a career, I could have taken a fulfilling minimum wage job and lived at home until some woman came along, married me, and took me away "from all of this"?

 

who says you have to choose to marry one of those women? who says ANYONE has to? it's still a freaking choice! i have a higher education level than my husband, and i made more than he did when i met him. we shared our funds, i helped support him when he decided to change careers (which meant working for himself, which meant NO MONEY). it was MY CHOICE. it was HIS CHOICE. and when OUR gamble and hard work paid off, WE decided that if we were going to have kids, i was staying home. why? because i'm better with kids. he's better making money.

if you want a good woman, you gotta learn to be a good man.

 

Women like you are as rare as hen's teeth.

 

so are men like my husband.

 

Things are pounded into you since birth. My dad always gives me more difficult and dirty jobs than my sisters, and he did at an earlier age too.

Its not a worse problem than any of problem in society that invovles the mass programming of humans through ignorance. You all are just recognizing it because it involves $ and thats all most people care about (not say its all you care about, but its all most people care about).

People are sexist, racist, and ignorant and every action they make around another person programs that person.

For example calling people a "fag" when they are being annoying. They don't even know what it means and they are being antigay.

...............

 

well, here's the thing. it's a problem. you KNOW it's a problem. you can't blame this on your mom and dad anymore. it's YOUR problem, now, and you can change it.

 

I can change myself, but I can't controll other people.

 

no, you can't. you can address the legalities, but the most practical application of any life change is to start with yourself. what is more important to you? buying some woman's affection, or your self respect? but if YOU continue to choose to pay for dates when it's clearly something you disagree with, then YOU can't continue to blame the woman for your empty wallet and lowered sense of self worth. you wouldn't take advantage of someone, why should you allow them to take advantage of you?

 

I get seriously guilt-like feelings when I even go to the movies and don't pay for both of us, I know it's not my place to do so but still, internalised nasty feelings

 

you know, i got over feeling guilty for not putting out when someone bought me dinner. i'm sure you can overcome this hurdle, too.

 

Yeah thats a good one, and just as unreasonable as this thread. Why are we chicks expected to put out when you pay for dinner or a movie?


oh thats right, were not obliged to, we just feel that way... but we dont have to, so many choose not to

 

Wow. If I took someone out on a date and she even thought about feeling obligated to put out because of it, I would give her the boot immediately!


What kind of girl feels obligated to "put out" just because a guy buys them dinner or a movie. That is just insane!

Have some respect for yourself!

I prefer to reserve sex for mutually romantic intimacy between two emotionally connected individuals and not just as a payment or pay-back for something. I really feel sorry for people who never give themselves a chance to experience truely fulfilling intercourse.

 

OK. Now I think I see what you're saying, KC. But I think that you're misunderstanding us.

Look at my lifestyle. I'm a full time activist. I sleep outside half the time and at friends' houses the other half. I have no steady source of income, and I'm lucky to get 3 meals a day. You're admonishing me that I have to be the first one to change on this issue seems a little out of place.

Of course the people talking about how it's a problem have already stopped paying for everything. But now we have to deal with all of the social preasures trying to put us back in our gender box. And that's what we're here to talk about. We're not here to be badgered about how it's all our fault in the first place.

You don't put out just because the guy pays for your meal, right? But I'll bet it sure as hell pisses you off when he expects you to.