hey everyone :)

i just thought the responses were a little harsh. would everyone have been happier had i LIED and said i WAS a veggie? probably. "Oh, welcome to our forum, fellow vegetarian! we love you!" maybe i did take it a little personally, but i felt like i WAS being attacked simply because i eat meat. when i "justified" my meat eating as you all think i was trying to do, which i WASN'T *ahem*, i was simply explaining that i do care about the welfare of animals and i'm not just some asshole who thinks vegetarians are fruity hippie freaks. i respect other walks of life, and i came to this forum to EXPLORE vegetarianism. but i didn't want to lie and say i AM a vegetarian, as i feel that lying about who you are is stupid. i understand people will disagree with me, but to be completely self-righteous and holier-than-thou is bullshit. that's how it felt to me, especially drumminmama's comment. it smacked of biting sarcasm and anger to me, and i didn't like it one bit. i'm sorry.

 

Would you have been happier if we all lied and said "hey, we're fine with you eating meat and think it's ok as long as you love and respect the animal that you kill and stuff down your throat?" Opinions are a two-way street. Don't express your opinion if you don't expect people to express theirs in return. I mean hell, it's a veggie forum. There's a fairly high chance that people here will have some pretty strong opinions on the ethics of eating meat.

Look, this is a veggie forum. Most people here are veggie or vegan. Most veggies and vegans find meat eating pretty ethically questionable at best. So what did you expect? Approval? I respect the fact that you're making some positive choices regarding the meat that you eat, but I don't believe that that somehow justifies the killing of animals just to satisfy your dietary choices. What other opinion did you expect a veggie to hold? If I felt it was ok, I'd still be eating organic free-range meat.

Well then that's cool. If you don't think that eating meat is acceptable ethically, but you don't feel that you're in a position to give it up at the moment, then I have no problem with that.

Well I think most people here have said they respect the effort you're making to avoid factory farmed meat, so I'm not really sure where you're getting that idea from. Holding passionate, ethical opinions does not make someone self-righteous - it makes them a caring human being.

 

no its not that my mind has changed---
i have the same theory all the other veggies do, its just i wouldnt personally attack you or anyone else for your feelings on what is right, and what you do.
And though I think that there is no humane way to kill an animal, it IS nice to see someone who at least pays some attention to what goes on-- i know people, tons of people actually, who could care less and just shrug when they hear about the insanity and inhumanity in factory farms--and that to me is truly disgusting. And I give you props for at least making an attempt to what YOU can --being veggie/vegan isnt for everyone, and I understand that.

In my perfect world it would be for everyone, but its not... so I accept and encourage people like you who at least CARE

 

And hey everyone, opinions are cool...but need we fight over every little issue/topic someone posts?

*hugs the whole forum*

 

thanks apples, for your positive responses i just don't think you can change anyone's mind with negativity or anger. or being preachy. that's all i'm going to say in this thread, period.

*HUGS*

 

But of course the very tone of that post is preachy. If you took a step down off your high horse for a moment and tried to engage with people rather than just huffing and puffing then we might make a bit of progress. At the moment though, it seems that you're more interested in continually complaining about other people expressing their opinions rather than having a conversation.

In fact, the very act of coming to a veggie forum and making a post all about how you eat meat could be seen as a little bit preachy. However, I'm quite happy to accept that this wasn't your intent and move forward. You've had two postivie replies to your previous post. Maybe it's time to stop complaining and start talking?

 

i guess the only post that really, truly bothered me was drumminmama's in which she basically showed that she didn't read the details of my original post by saying this:

quite frankly her sarcasm irritated me. i indicated that the farms my co-op purchases the meat from are all local, small farms run mostly by "hippies" who really do care about the welfare and happiness of the animals and take very good care of them in life (which yes, their lives DO end). she basically disregarded everything i said in my original post, and it showed that her argument was not well-formulated or thought out and was based purely on emotion. i am perfectly aware that the "free range" stamp means a minimum of 4 hours a week in sunlight. that does not mean my co-op supports that kind of meat! it kinda got me defensive because i take great pride in my job and the products we carry there. i THINK someone owes me an apology, not for her opinion, but for acting so brashly without really knowing what she was talking about...

you are right that i shouldn't get defensive if people don't agree with my opinions. that does not mean i will ever agree with you totally, but i respect your opinions. i guess the reason i got so annoyed is because my post was not intended to spark debate, but it did, and i didn't know how to respond. you vegetarians have a right to hate me, because i eat animals sometimes; emphasis on the SOMETIMES, here folks. give me SOME little bit of credit, here. but my eating meat, even if it comes from a better source than what most people eat, infuriates you and makes you sad because it's not what you believe in. that's fine and i respect those feelings.

here's the thing you must realize: people eat meat. people are always going to eat meat. people should not eat as much meat as they do, but they eat it! you can't stop people from eating it, but you can educate them as to the best way to go about it should they choose. you CAN change minds with the right attitude and the right way to go about it. when you tell someone they are a killer or they are evil for eating meat, they tend to not want to agree with you. respect does go both ways.

for the record, i am not a "meat eater." i am an omnivore. i have tons of vegetarian friends. i will always eat some meat from time to time. many people think i am a vegetarian, but about 4 times a year, i eat some meat. i feel that i would be a hypocrite to call myself a veggie, personally.

i shall request that this thread be closed because it's not going to go anywhere. i apologize for ruffling any feathers in here. i know better than to post in this forum anymore, seeing as it is exclusively for vegetarians only...no evil animal-killers like myself allowed...

 

I don't think meat-eaters should be barred from this forum, but I'm not sure what you were expecting by posting a whole thread on you eating meat and free range meat and all that in a vegetarian forum.

 

I agree that it should be possible to respect each other's opinions, and I have no problem with that notion. However, what you mus realise is that vegetarians feel strongly that eating meat is unethical and morally wrong. Now we don't expect everyone to agree with us, but considering for a moment that for us it's a strong moral issue, please look at what you've just said, but with a different spin:

Now you don't view meat-eating as wrong. That's your choice and I respect that. But most of us here do see it as wrong, and in that context, perhaps the above example will help you understand how you sound to us. And once again, please remember..... this is a vegetarian forum. You chose to come here. We didn't come seeking you out.

 

i do see where you're coming from...i feel kinda silly now that you changed "eating meat" to "raping" in the quote...i've been going through some shit in my life, and i haven't been emotionally balanced lately. i'm getting better, though. i'm sorry that i even posted in this forum. i should have expected the reactions i got.

i really am a peace loving person, in my heart of hearts...i'm sorry. ugh, i suck...

 

Since I'm new here, maybe I can provide a little insight from someone who is more or less an outsider.

I am a vegan, but if I jumped on everyone's case that ate animals, then I would have a very hard time making friends. I always see veg people trying to argue a veg lifestyle from an ethical standpoint, usually unsuccessfully. To the other person, it can be like you forcing your religion on them. Not all of us have the same ethical beliefs, and this makes it hard to get others to "see" your point of view. If you want to teach people the truth, teach them by example instead of imposing it on them. If they are interested, they will ask questions. However, I have no problem arguing a vegan diet from a health standpoint. I have a compulsion, a nearly uncontrollable one, to tell the truth and correct misinformation about health. This is different then an ethical argument because I have science on my side, and therefore I can prove why the corrections must be made. I just feel it's dangerous and irresponsible to allow people to believe the inaccurate information about proper diet. (Sorry, back on topic).

Anyway, our new friend sonador_hermosa has brought up an important point about the animals she eats. I understand it's difficult for many of you to see past the part of raising animals for food, but you mustn't ignore the issue of the animal's quality of life before slaughter. I recently listened to Michael Besancon talk about this very subject, and believe me it is an important issue. For those of you who don't know, Michael Besancon is the president of the Southern Pacific Region of Whole Foods Markets and it's his job to visit the farms they purchase animals from. Whole Foods is leading the way in changing the way animals are treated, and their policies are very strict.

In farms where the animals are free range, they get to live like animals and have an enjoyable life prior to slaughter. There are rules about killing the animals too young and rules about their living conditions when they need to be brought indoors on certain occasions. You can't stop people from eating animals, but it's important to at the very least make sure that animals are allowed to be animals prior to being eaten. I understand that this is not the ideal arrangement many of you would like, but it's an important step.

Remember, food is representative of many things for people. It's cultural, traditional, reminiscent of growing up, and even an expression of emotion (like love). Respect other people's choices first, and they will come to understand (perhaps even embrace) yours.

 

thank you...

 

hmmmm, you know what i find funny? the fact that when i posted this post, it got quite a bit of responses, but when i announce that i have returned to vegetarianism (i forgot to mention that i was veggie for many years before i made the decision to eat meat again), i got maybe 2 responses. that's fucking hilarious!

it's easy to point out people's shortcomings, but i guess it's really hard to commend them for positive changes. that makes me sad.

 

no comments now? awww, so sad