Discussing Money... and family

Hi everyone,
I have a question, that I wanted to run by you all. I asked this before, in a way, but this is a little more specific now that we have a new situation that has come up. Quick background for those of you who don't know: Jer and I have been together for almost 5 years now. We have been living together for about 1 1/2 years now. We have a 3rd roommate at the moment who is Jeremy's brother just to keep bills cheap so we can save money to purchase our own house. We have separate accounts and have never really put our money together, but we share expenses like groceries and sometimes he pays for things, sometimes I do. He does help me out more because he makes significantly more than I do even though I work 2 jobs now. So, if I need him to help me pay a doctor bill for example, he will give me some extra money. I don't ask him to buy me things like clothes or anything like that though. I don't really like accepting money from him because he does tend to hold it against me later. We are planning to buy a house together hopefully this year if things go well.

Here is the current problem. Jeremy's brother that lives with us makes quite a bit of money too. (more than I ever expect to make) and they have a younger brother who is still in college. Now, the younger brother is a total slacker, and he uses people, spends all of his money on pot and beer and snow boarding trips, and he is constantly expecting everyone else to pay his way and take care of him when it comes to everything. He doesn't want to work, so when he gets jobs he usually ends up quitting or getting fired for not showing up.

Well, the brother that lives with us is constantly taking care of the younger brother. He pays his way everywhere and he makes so many excuses as to why the younger one has his money problems or why he shouldn't work, or why he is entitled to things that he doesn't work for.

The problem right now is that the younger brother has a tooth that is rotting out of his head (because he is irresponsible) and he need to get it fixed. That will cost over $4,000. Don't ask me why. The brother that lives with us wants to help him pay for it. I say good for him, he can do what he wants. However, the problem comes in because he is asking my boyfriend Jeremy to pay for part of the tooth. This money will never be paid back and I highly doubt the boy will realize how much it costs, or what is sacrificed for it. He just doesn't understand the concept of money because people keep giving it to him and paying his way.

Jer and I have talked about this before because he said that he doesn't honestly want to pay for the kid's tooth, for the same concerns that I have. However, his brother (that lives with us) has a way of making people feel guilty and getting them to do things that they don't want to. And Jeremy is very loyal to his family (which is a good thing, please don't misunderstand) and he might just do it to get people off his back. However, this makes me very uneasy. I do realize it is Jeremy's money and he can do what he wants with it, and I really don't have a say because we aren't married and we don't share money. My concern though is how far is this going to go. Are we going to be taking care of his loser brother forever? My problem isn't so much about him lending or giving the money to his brother, my problem is that the kid never works for anything and people are always giving him things. I don't want to be giving him things the rest of my life. I mean I don't know. I don't want to seem like a selfish bitch or anything like that, or cold or unloving toward Jer's brother. I just don't want to get stuck in a situation down the road where we can't afford a house, or when we have kids to take care of them because we have to take care of Jer's family. I mean I already know and have accepted the fact that we are going to have to pay for his parents pretty soon (they refuse to work because they are lazy, which is where the one son gets it from btw).

I don't really know if I have a say in the matter. I suppose that is my question. Should I just keep my mouth shut and let what happens happen, or should I voice my opinion and let Jer know that I don't think it is right for them to put him in that situation. I mean aside from the fact that Jer just switched jobs and money is tight for us right now, we are trying to save for a house together. Now all of that money will be wiped out. (his half not mine).

Anyway, Sorry this was so long, just let me know what you guys think. For now I'm keeping my mouth shut.

Thanks bunches,
Jen

 

tuff call. probably they'll pay for it i bet. If i was in your position, id probably get the youngest bro' alone and say " hey, just wanted you to know that jer made a big sacrifice for you, and set himself back a year in his plans because you werent on top of your life... you should try not to hurt his future anymore. " dont say you screwed up MY plans, because you'll sound selfish. better to play concerned for a mutual friend. then at least its out there, and when it happens again you can say hey, your hurting his future AGAIN, man. maybe he'll get the point eventually.

just a thought.

 

Thanks,
You know what really fries my figs even more is that the younger brother who is getting his tooth fixed, isn't even putting up any money at all! None. Not even $20. I guess that is why I feel like this isn't fair because he just expects people to pay for him while he continutes to party (and the rest of his teeth probably rot out). It would be so completely different if he had at least part of it or something to contribute.

I keep thinking though, this is his brother and you are supposed to help family, but I just wasn't raised that way. My sister helped me out with some money a while back, but I was working at the time and using all of my money to pay my bills and I paid her back not only every single cent I borrowed, but I also gave her 5% interest as well. And I paid her back in a timely manner. Just the way I think things should be done is all.

And the parents aren't even helping. They expect the brothers to pay it too. I just don't get this family and it is making me quite worried for what my future might hold. I mean I didn't grow up with a lot of money, but my parents took care of my sister and I and still would if we needed money. They wouldn't pawn it off on someone else. Nor do my parents expect me to take care of them (though I would of course as much as I could), they work/ed for a living and will have money to retire on.

Guess I'm just set in my ways. I'm still keeping my mouth shut, thanks for letting me vent everyone. I really appreciate it.

 

ya i d be worried too if i was you. thats why i think you should let the little brother know that hes causing hardship. Its a slow process, but like i said, maybe he'll get the idea eventually. of course, he may react really negatively if hes truly a spoiled kid, so youd have to word it just right... but man, someone should put a mirror up to him eventually. Its not like hes disabled or deficient, right?

 

why aren't the parents helping at all, and expecting their other children to carry their burden? wouldn't it be more their responsibility to pay for their sons medical care, rather than the other two brothers paying for it? or at least to help out a little bit?

perhaps jer could cut a deal with the slacker brother and say that he will match whatever money he comes up with on his own (not including the money the responsible brother or others might contribute). it's not like it's going to motivate him to get some money, but i think it's the most fair way to just give him money. and then you don't have to worry about being set back too much in your plans.

what about trying to get more family involved, so the burden isn't all on a couple people? maybe some aunts/uncles or grandparents would be willing to loan the money to the younger brother, or each donate $50?

have you talked to the brother you live with? have the three of you sat down and discussed your financial situation? it's not right that the brother is using guilt to manipulate you guys into helping out. you should explain what you said here -- neither of you can afford to help, and doing so will set you back a lot. don't feel too bad about speaking up about how this is going to effect you... nobody else is going to speak up for you, and you deserve to be taken into consideration here. make sure the brother knows that you and jer are saving money to buy a house, and that you just can't give away $2000 (assuming the brother expects you to pay half). be firm about it. explain that you're not in the same financial situation as himself, and if you were, you'd be willing to help. if you guys can't afford it, you can't afford it, and whatever jer contributes is going to fall back on you.. so again, you deserve to be considered, here.

have you shopped around for a second (or third) opinion on the tooth situation? $4000 is SO much money!! i'd definitely look around... if he's in college, there might be some university health services or a dental school or something, anything, that would be cheaper than that! what about health insurance? does he have any? could he get some health insurance before getting the work done on his tooth?

 

Hey everyone,
Thanks for the advice. This is going to be quick because I have to get ready for work. I hope it makes sense.

His parents don't help out because they don't work. They have never really held jobs long term. The pretty much mooch. Always have. When rent used to come due for them they would pack up and leave in the middle of the night. Then Jeremy's grandfather gave them a house when he died so they didn't have to do that anymore, and they came into a little money for selling some land, so they didn't have a mortgage on the house. So again they didn't ever really have to get real jobs. They just did whatever to make ends meet. They were always quite poor being as there were 4 kids. I have a feeling this is why the youngest two are losers and refuse to work or go to school (he is in college still but only by force of the brother that lives with us, and he has almost flunked out many times).

So, the parents have no money. That is why I have already accepted the fact that we are going to have to pay for them pretty soon. Jeremy already gives them money every month. And I know that children are sometimes expected to take care of their parents, but they aren't old, they just refuse to work. The dad now collects social security because he supposedly hurt his foot or some nonsense. Plus they have been paying for the kid with the tooth problem through all of his legal issues because he is a pot head who likes to drink and drive, and the youngest (only girl) who also gets into much trouble with the law and refuses to go to school or work, she sleeps all day and parties all night and they don't do a damn thing about it.

So, there is Jer and his brother that lives with us. They work hard, have degrees and really good jobs. Not sure how they ended up that way. Anyway, the three of us have sat down and talked about it once, and they pretty much told me it was none of my business, which is why I came here to ask if it was. I think it is, not because I'm actually paying money, but because the money Jer is giving is preventing us from getting a house. They also think that I don't understand helping out family because I don't have to help mine (yeah that is right my family works for a fucking living) sorry I'm a little upset.

As for shopping around, yes they did, and they did find it cheaper. I don't know the reason, but they aren't going there. It was like $2000 cheaper too! The dentist right next to our townhouse. But he for some reason doesn't want to go there. I imagine it is because he is now comfortable with the first doctor (none of them are too into change and being comfortable in their own skin, they want someone to hold their hand all of the time). And as far as insurance, they have never had any. All of their lives since the parents were irresponsible and never held a job long enough, nor cared about getting insurance for the kids, they have never had any. The kid with the tooth issue will not go to the school and see if there is any sort of insurance through the school or another way. He didn't even sign himself up for housing the brother that lives with us did it and enrolled him in classes and drives him every where so he doesn't have to take the bus because he doesn't know how to take the bus (and he wants someone to buy him a car). So he won't go over there an ask them if there is anything anyone else can do. And as a matter of fact they have a very very very wealthy uncle, that they refuse to ask for help. Guess it is a pride thing. Maybe I should call him. He's pretty cheap with his money though, he might not give it freely.

Sorry, this isn't the prettiest post, I'm in a hurry and quite mad about everything going on with Jer's family. This is why I want to pack up and move away from them. I don't want to have to deal with this for the rest of our lives together. It really isn't my burden and I don't think it is fair. Do I really sound that mean. It is their own fault they are in this position I think.

Anyway, all thanks for letting me vent about my in laws to be.

 

yeah, i think it is definitely your business and that your input matters on the whole thing.

i'd say that it sounds like nobody is TRULY willing to help, just throw some money around. the kid will never learn how to take care of himself if he's taught that insurance isn't important for the broke, and that the most expensive (though not the best) care money can buy is the most appropriate. you guys found a way to cut the bill in half, and they won't use it. perhaps you could look around some more and find a place that will still be a little cheaper? i mean, if one place was $2000 less, another place might save you at least a grand. but the fact that they aren't willing to go there, and burden you guys more, is totally unacceptable. if it were me, this would be my point of just putting up a stubborn wall and denying the kid a penny, no matter what, haha.

add to that the fact that the kid is too stupid and stubborn to put down the pipe and head to the campus health services, i don't think he deserves any help. he just wants to make the lives of those who help him more difficult. he doesn't appreciate the people who help him, and i don't think he deserves it.

i'd be so frustrated too. sorry, but what bullshit! i would not want to put up with that... especially if when i state my opinion i'm told to shut up. wow!

anyway, what i would do is this:
set up your boundaries. they've obviously set some pretty stupid ones themselves, like refusing to shop around, refusing to get health insurance, refusing to ask the able for help, etc. so you're justified in setting whatever boundaries you see fit, and sticking to them.

my boundaries would be as follows, so maybe it'll help get you started:

• i would not contribute any money until you find an acceptable dentist for around $2000 since they know they can find someone to do it at that cost. there is no good reason to pay double. i'd rather drive an hour to find a decent doctor at a decent price. let the brother make his own contribution and pay the extra $2000, and see if it really isnt a "big deal" then.
• secondly, i would not be willing to help the kid until he helps himself, meaning he has to look into insurance. the surgery is $4000, and that's not including any pain meds he might need to recover, and then what happens if he gets an infection and needs more meds and a follow up visit?
• i would also say that NO money that the two of you haved saved should be used for it. no money is to be taken out of your savings account, or wherever your money is set aside for the house. since you're the one who will be paying the difference to make up for whatever jer contributes, this is reasonable.

does the brother know how much money you guys have saved up? does he know what your bank accounts look like? you could just say that you guys just can't help, you just don't have the money.

where is jer standing on all of this? at first it sounded like he was totally on your side, but then the last thing you said, it sounds like he was with your brother in telling you to mind your own business. i'd talk to each of them separately. first talk to jer and make sure that you're clear on where he stands. tell him that you're concerned that this might set a pattern for the future, constantly having to take care of his little brother, and being told that your opinion doesn't matter 'cause your family situation is different. make sure that he knows that you DO understand, and make sure he understands you. then i'd go talk to the brother, without jer there. make him understand that it IS your business, and that you will not be contributing any money until some changes and compromises are made.

ahh, good luck, lady! i really hope something works out for you. i would be so frustrated with all of this.... ugh. try to not let it get to you, or to think about it too much, you don't need the stress. but you're definitely right in feeling the way you do, and you're definitely right that this is a major issue that concerns you. i can't imagine living with people who were doing things that affect my life majorly, and then to be told to just shut up and mind my own business because ill never understand. sorry for the length, and good luck!

 

Thanks so much! I am just glad someone sees what I'm saying. I felt like maybe I shouldn't feel this way.

Jeremy doesn't really want to pay for it, and he does agree with me that the boy needs to do some things for himself, including this (I mean the boy is an adult 23 for god's sake). But he is torn because at the same time he is family and he knows that the parents can't pay for it.

I'm just really pissed about it. But I think I do need to stay calm and collected and speak with each of them gently and express my concern for the situation. I doubt they will understand (well Jer will, but no one else in the family will). Jeremy doesn't stick up for himself when it comes to family, regardless of what he believes in right. I'm really scared for the future. I can't be taking care of these people forever. Why can't I just date a guy with a normal family for once. LOL.

Thanks so much for your input. I really appreciate it!

Jen

 

Next time a dental root nerve is exposed let him suffer the agony of dental pain . dont rush him to the dental office for several hours 6 hours at least more is better . watch how fast and serius he well think about his mouth.

 

Intense Heat, I would love to. However, it isn't my decision.

I just found out from Jeremy's middle brother the reason the little one isn't paying anything for his own tooth is because he is in school and his job right now is to complete college not have a job to pay for a tooth. However, when he does ever have money he spends it all on pot and beer and his friends and snowboarding trips.

Boy if I wasn't pissed before I'm really fuckin pissed now. No one will have any teeth left when I'm done.

Jesus Christ, when I was 17 I moved out on my own worked a full time job and went to school, had health and dental insurance and paid all of my own bills. GRRRRRRRR! I'm so mad.

 

just out of curiosity, what sort of dental procedure does the little brother need? you don't have to be specific, i was just wondering if he could have prevented this trip to the dentist with regular brushing and flossing. i would have a hard time paying for something that could have been prevented by taking normal care of yourself. if thats the case, i'd offer to buy the kid a toothbrush, some toothpaste with flouride, a roll of floss, and some mouthwash. tell him it's like giving him thousands of dollars worth of dental help, but without all the pain and hassle. but if it's the sort of thing where he got accidentally injured, or it's some unforseen illness like mouth-cancer, it would be easier to justify helping him out.

 

you should respond by saying that it's NOBODY'S job to pay for his tooth, but him. his job isn't to pay for his tooth? well, neither is your job or jer's job or any other siblings job to pay for his tooth. it sucks when we have to pay for things we don't want to, or can't afford, and that's what he's gotta learn. your job and jer's job is to work to save money and buy a house, and cover your own expenses, not pay for his mouth. turn that crap right back around on him.

sheesh, his job is to go to school and not have to cover his own expenses... right.. and my job is to be queen ruler of the universe.
how's he paying tuition? perhaps it's time the kid learns how to take out a loan...

 

LOL yeah he could have prevented it by not getting drunk and getting into a fight with his friend. Because this problem is due to his friend punching him in the mouth. Doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me now. But I'm not like that. This is entirely his brother's fault and responsibility I just don't see why no one else in his family gets that. What is wrong with these people!

 

hah, try and get his friends parents to pitch in. maybe theaten a civil suit? easy to suggest i know, but if i smash someones car, i have to pay for it... maybe work the little brothers ego a bit.. say he has no balls for not asking his friend for some money to fix what he damaged.. (but he prolly started the whole thing i bet)... and try to get your fiancee to put his foot down about the cheaper dentist.. but be cool about it, its all in the tone of voice. calm and rational.. if you cut the bill in half, and get the friend to pitch, then split the remainder between jer and his bro'... ? i know, its all easy to say from 1000 miles away, but just go for some damage control, then you can at least say "hey, at least jer didnt fork over 4000$ ". good luck. (calm and rational!)

and at some point, tell the little brother that hes a punk.tell him that internet guy said it. a fellow snowboarder.

 

Nope, no one will pay except his middle brother because he has some sort of guilt issues which is fine, that is all him, but asking my boyfriend to pitch in simply because they are related is pretty unfair if you ask me. Oh right, they don't ask me. So we are talking about it again just now and the middle brother said that the tooth has been like this for over a year and now it is infected and so that is why they have to fix it now. So, I said but over this year, Jim has had the money to do this so why is it now your burden, and Jer's burden, why didn't he spend some of the money he has had that he pissed away on snowboarding trips and booze and pot. His brother's answer is "if you had this problem would you save all of your money and pay for a tooth" my answer was hell yes. Then he said "well going to the dentist is like a foreign thing for our family" then after that he said "plus it is $4000 so why should he bother"

I swear to god, I seriously can't deal with these stupid people. He doesn't get it and he doesn't listen to anyone else. I don't really care what the fuck the middle brother does, he can take care of him for the rest of his life if he feels he should, however I don't want to and Jeremy shouldn't have to. Just because they have the same parents doesn't mean we are responsible for the boy. He is a fucking adult and it is time he act like one.

 

Now Jer just won't talk to me about it at all. I didn't flip out or anything, I just told them together what I thought, it actually quite breif. I said it isn't fair that the little brother isn't paying anything and he never will learn because you keep taking care of him etc. And the middle brother threatened me then claimed to be joking. But he was drunk, so I didn't want to argue with him cause he is just a dick in general. I can't wait to get away from him, but that is a different post entirely. So now Jer has secret meetings with his brother about it in his room with the door closed when I'm not there. I guess he figures it is none of my business too (even though he doesn't feel like he should be paying either). He thinks that if they don't discuss it in front of me then I just won't know what is going on so I can't bitch about it. I'm mad, but I don't think that there is any more that I can do. I can't make anyone see my point, they are just stupid. There is no other way to explain it. The kid really pisses me off. And them taking care of him and enabling this behavior really makes me mad.

Thanks for all of the advice guys. At least I know I'm not crazy for feeling this way.

 

unfortunately, you cant change someone elses mind for them... and what else can i say?

 

Yeah I know. However, I now know what my future could possibly hold if I decide to get any deeper in this relationsihp. I will never put any of my money with Jeremy's now because I know that eventually it will all go to bail out his ungrateful, irresponsible family. I can't be worried about our kids going hungry cause Jer is once again throwing money at his loser relatives. And no I'm not breaking up with him over it, for that would be silly, I'm just being careful.

 

If it's your BF's money, let him spend it how he will. Keep your oar out, his family problems are none of your business.

 

Sure they are when they affect me. And when his family becomes my family, just like I said I don't want my kids to go hungry one day (if I choose to have them with him) just because his family refuses to work.