Following vs. Believing

Which do you think Jesus would care more about: a moral person who follows Jesus' path of peace and tolerance but is not a Christian, or someone who believes Jesus is the savior of mankind but doesn't exactly show "goodwill" to others?

I know a lot of atheists who are more christlike than everyone I know at church. It seems to me that true following doesn't mean believing, but simply living as Jesus would want us to.

 

I agree, good way of putting it. Do we come to god through jesus by believing, or by being like Jesus? i think it's the latter.

 

What did Jesus say?

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV)
Mark 16:16

 

In other words, fellas...

ADOLF HITLER could've repented to Invisible Sky Daddy and got killed in war (actually he killed himself, but this is an example argument) and, because of this, went to rest in the "Arms of God" in gloryland hallelujah in the bye and bye, etc.etc...

BUT,

MOTHER T could've helped millions of people and never gave a damn about believing in Jeezus...and she'd be frying like in the eternal oven.

PRAISE THE LAWRD & SLAVER!!!

 

But since neither happened...

Really mate, what would be Mother T's motivation for helping millions of people if not for God? What would be Adolf's reason to turn around from his violent life?

Nevermind, I'm going offtopic. Point being, if you haven't got CHRIST, you've got NOTHING.

 

This is what is so silly about you people. You don't have fucking REAL compassion. You are all a bunch of self centered fucktards that are only interested in your own fucking immortality. looking out for number one under the fucking facade of spirituality. pathetic.

What would have been mother theresa's motivation for helping millions of people? Compassion, empathy, an optimistic fucking world view, or consideration and caring for some other than herself.

hilter was amoral like your fuckass

 

Not that I don't agree with you on certain points, but insulting people can't win you long-term respect. Had you put more thought into this post, you could really have made a point that really sticks. Like I said, I understand your viewpoint, but I can't really say I agree with how you expressed it.

In short, yes. I agree. St. Theresa probably would have done her ministry regardless of whether she was Christian or not. Her eyes are so warm and full of compassion for others, it's almost unreal... Almost supernatural in a sense. She attained a level of understanding that most of us won't have the stamina to achieve. She saw a lot of suffering... A lot of starving people. A lot of sick people. A lot of babies thrown in the Ganges (sp?) in order to appease their god to no avail. I would hope that makes an impression on anyone with a human heart.

 

That's dumb. A better example is Ghandi, a Hindu. Did he have nothing? Did he accomplish nothing? Seems to me that he lived an extraordinary life and set an amazing example for the rest of us.

And as far as "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned," that's fine, but what's so great about mere belief? It's really not worth anything. It's just a thought bouncing around inside your head, that you occasionally also tell others. So what? You believe what you want, but I can't accept that God wants us to merely believe he and his son existed. For all those who don't believe, I can't see them being eternally damned for that simple, stupid reason. If it's true, God is an idiot and I'd rather be in your hell.

It's how one lives that counts, not how one believes.

 

I'd also like to know, what is really meant by belief? Is that an accurate translation?

 

We are not saved by works, we are saved by Grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)


If Mother Teresa wanted to go out and help people while she herself was a non-christian, fine, you can do that. However, we will be judged after death. If she died a non-christian then that will be between her and God.

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

 

This is an interesting question; I'm personally not a Christian, and don't believe in a creator God or that Jesus was his son.

But several Christian friends encourage me to convert, and one particular guy, although he never actually says "believe in Jesus or go to Hell," seems to suggest to me quite a lot that I can't be saved unless I become a dedicated Christian.

Isn't this really a bit unjust? Am I to believe that if Jesus is really God and our savoir that he would be so cruel as to allow millions of very kind and moral people (aethiest, Hindu or whoever) to be eternally damned, simply because they doubted his God-hood?

Doesn't sound very wholly good and omniscient to me.

 

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me" ...does that necessarily mean belief, or by being Christ-like? I doubt Jesus was talking about himself, but was referring to the higher nature in us all, the Christ within.

And the fact that you think an exemplary non-christian would "be judged" after he dies and his fate is "between him and God" sickens me, because it's a very thinly veiled comment reflecting your belief they;ll be damned. You seem to be confused about what's really important in life.

 

wtf are you on about man ........stay of those magareritta thingymagig drinks ...too many bad hangovers.....get back in your box libo ....:X ...........may god be with you fella.......

 

I could like to say both the Following and the Believig are impostant. The perfect situation is if the person has a harmony between them.

 

Don't read into things too much.

Just take his words at face value. No one is getting to the Father (God) unless by Jesus.

When the end comes we will ALL be judged, our fates will all be the judgement of God and the actions of our lives.
[/QUOTE]
Remember that God doesn't throw people into hell, but we have a choice. To accept Jesus Christ and live with Him in the afterlife, or not to. God allows everyone to be saved, and the option is always there, but you have to take it.

"that he would be so cruel as to allow millions of very kind and moral people (aethiest, Hindu or whoever) to be eternally damned"

God is not damning people eternally. Christ is here, He is the way to heaven, but you have to accept him. It's your choice whether to get onboard or not, but no matter what you choose, it's still your choice.

 

The choices are limited. It's still:
Choose to believe and join me in heaven, or suffer in Hell eternally.
Not too many options here.

Don't read into things too much? "Don't question it." They used a quote by some saint or someone in my Catholic school: "DO WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU!"

There should be nothing wrong with questioning it and looking into it deeply and analytically in order to understand it. If it is the truth, what reason is there to worry? Questioning would only bring further understanding.

Moving on . . .

I'm going to have to agree with thumontico on this one. Why do you believe? For who do you believe? Why did Mother Theresa believe? For whom did she do good acts? Why did she do good acts?

It seems the primary interest in Christianity is the preservation of the self into eternity, which is really a compansation for the fear of death. No wonder it is so appealing. How do you live forever? Just believe, learn and love God! The very notion of: Believe and join me forever, do not believe and suffer eternally - promotes the very essential, root of selfishness. You act for yourself. Your saving your skin by doing this. Wait, not skin, but soul.

I wonder, a man such as Gandhi - did he believe his good works were going to take him to heaven? Or did he simply act them out of compassion? His beliefs and actions certainly promoted unity, peace and love. But if he believed he would lose himself after this life, why did he do them?

Or, as my philosophy professor gave the example of: A man jumping on a grenade in the trenches, saving his comrades. Purely a selfless act ( Unless he thought it was a one-way ticket to heaven).

I can see acts like these, without really thinking about the self or the self's future, but sacrificing anyway, to be the greatest acts.

Is it pure compassion or selfishness painted over in glory and the divine?

Is this really about God, or yourself?

 

uhh...so all of his parables were really just stories about farmers and parties and weepings and gnashings of teeth?

 

Heaven is eternal peace. Hell is being eternally separated from God. A person will get exactly what they show they want in life. Just know though, that people who do not accept Christ in life will get just the same in the afterlife: a place without Christ. And without Christ, there is no good. There is no peace. Constant suffering! It is still your choice, though.

I never said "Don't question it." I said, don't read into it, to the point where you're twisting the words into "I doubt Jesus was talking about himself, but was referring to the higher nature in us all, the Christ within." Just take things at face value! "No one is getting to the Father (God) unless by me (Jesus is speaking)". I think this cartoon is suitable for this subject:

Looking into it? Sure. Twisting it? No.



Moving on . . .

...What of the whole, "Go out, preach to all nations of the world"? Why are we here every day if not for Christ?

As I said: If you haven't got CHRIST, you haven't got ANYTHING! His deeds might have been good, but his beliefs weren't, and that will be between him and God.

Pardon, I kind of lost you in all of this. What was this about?

 

I wonder why people do good deeds for Christ? For themselves, or for Christ? For themselves for Christ? What is the real motive behind preaching to the world?

I never said to 'twist' things, simply question them. One does not twist things when they attempt approaches from different angles of perspective.

Those who are without God experience suffering and pain? My life is quite happy without the ideal of a God separate from creation. The Biblical God. I am happy, I've had spiritual experiences, discovered compassion and listened to many a teacher (not followed, simply listened and learned), whether it was the forest, a man or a woman. If I am to go to Hell for this, then, as I have stated before: So be it. I'd rather be there than with a God so intolerant and judgemental as to cast away such things as compassion, love, wisdom, understanding and peace.

But at any rate, I guess it doesn't matter. Your reality is different than mine. Subjectivity appearing as real as objectivity. I try not to impose my subjectivity upon others. I merely suggest. There is no threat of eternal suffering merely because I peek through a different looking glass than you do.

I wonder sometimes, why I talk here . . .

 

James 2: 17: "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone"
James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only."



After all, even the devils believe.
James 2:19: “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”